First time ebay problem (returning a damaged coin)
jwitten
Posts: 5,211 ✭✭✭✭✭
I bought a gold coin that had fairly crappy pictures, but it did not show any damage, and the price was decent if that was what the condition truly was. When it arrived, it had undisclosed edge damage from solder being removed, as a lot of $2 1/2 gold coins were used in jewelry. The seller does not accept returns, so I opened a return case for not as described, since it was not disclosed or shown. Well, basically the seller is saying I am a scammer, am trying to return a coin that is different than he shipped, etc. Threatening to contact my district attorney, etc. I know ebay will let me return it after the few days have passed to allow the seller time to respond, but this guy is already claiming I am returning the wrong item.... so what will happen? Will I lose the coin and the money? I've sent him pictures showing the damage, and have tried to be reasonable and kind in my contact with him, but he seems like a loose cannon.
Comments
Can you provide the Ebay link?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Liberty-Head-1853-gold-2-50-/183106373140?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=EGomZuW7UXHEQ3QxapCwh1t8izI%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
The coin is also harshly cleaned, which makes sense for being a jewelry piece. It was not super obvious in the pictures because they were so bad though. I do not mind the cleaning as much as the solder damage though. Here is a picture of the damage:
Hopefully they will promptly refund you.
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Do not communicate any further with the seller at this point as he is not going to resolve the issue. Just follow the process after filing and escalating the SNAD claim and you will receive a full refund including shipping upon the coin's return. His return policy is irrelevant when the item is not as described.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The buyer won't, I am sure. I think ebay will when it is delivered, but I am worried what will happen if the seller tries to appeal the decision and say I swapped coins. I've heard if the buyer goes to great lengths (police reports, etc), they could win. I called ebay to ask and couldn't get a straight answer.
I think you are overthinking this. I can say one thing for certain~ebay will side with the buyer virtually every time. Plus, there is no way he will be able to prove you returned a different coin even if he takes the time to video opening the box.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I probably am, lol. I just don't see how some people have such terrible service that they act this way over a return. Crazy.
He knows he is the one in the wrong so all the threats are just his way of hoping he will intimidate you into dropping the return.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Agree. I'ts a good idea to include a picture with your SNAD claim. Just follow the instructions on how to do it. This way eBay has a copy of your evidence.
I am sorry you encountered such problem. Open the case with the picture attached; you need to take another picture showing the soldered part as observe or reverse so eBay can determine that the defective coin is indeed the same one you received.
Make sure your picture show the exact character of the coin with the damage side so there is no question whether a different coin is being returned. Make a video of you enclosing the said item for return, I usually did in the front of post master then seal the box. eBay should decide on your favor as as long as you give them proof.
Good luck!
I tried to take pictures that show it is the same coin, but since their pictures are from such a distance it was a little hard. Also, since the damage is on the side, it was hard to show it was the same coin. Here is what I have for comparisons. Notice the dings in the same place:
This picture shows problem on edge near first star on right of date
I just skip those out of focus phone pics...
Yup, that's where it is. So, does that show the damage enough that it is not considered not-as-described? Or would you be able to tell that was damage if you didn't see the edge picture as well.
Your getting scammed by the seller. His threat of calling authorities is nothing more than trying to intimidate you. Don't fall for this your right and you know it. Document, document, document and above all do NOT TALK to this crook again. This piece of trash won't do nothing and if he does are you ready to defend you good name in court? I know you are and you will win but he wont so don't fall for this garbage. Sorry you went through this now if you want to PM me his call name on Ebay so I NEVER BUY FROM THIS PIECE OF S##T EVER! Have a great weekend.
John
Sorry you have to go thru this.
It does seem liked a slam dunk to me if you also look up the "C" in America and the middle arrow of the reverse in both pictures. Both showing the same damaged characteristics.
Good luck! (& don't think Ebay need much convincing)
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Even the ebay picture shows something stuck to the edge of coin...
Guess I'm missing something here, the OP bid on and won a $2.5 quarter eagle and this is what the OP received from the seller. You can clearly see in pictures the edge damage, seller never made any mention of condition in the listing. Now if the seller said BU or AU in the listing then received a jewelry piece it would be item not as described. In this case the OP received exactly what was described and seller clearly states no returns accepted, so why on earth would ebay side with the buyer? Seems like the OP was wanting a better condition coin then what they actually bought.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
This is one of those cases...sigh...
First, from personal experience, eBay will refund your money. If there is any issue over what was returned, etc., eBay MAY make the seller whole also.
I had a stamp item returned. It got sent to the wrong address. I reported it to eBay. eBay contacted the buyer. He got mad (it was only a $20 item), but in the end eBay paid him the $20 and I was out no money.
In another instance, the buyer scrubbed an AU Liberty nickel trying to remove a carbon spot. It ended up a hairlined mess. I refunded the buyers money (cuz I have no real recourse) and reported it to eBay hoping they would make me whole also. They did not.
eBay does tend to side, very leniently, with the buyer. That is why it is silly for any seller to pretend they don't accept returns. You have no choice. If there is not a SNAD filed, the buyer can simply file a chargeback through PayPal or their credit card.
Personally, the seller is being an ass. He might as well just take the coin back and be done with it. There is no point in fostering ill well or pretending he doesn't have to accept the return.
I'd also, humbly and kindly, suggest to the buyer (who is one of the people I really like on these boards), that the item is pretty much exactly as "not described". The auction makes no mention of pretty much anything other than it is a $2.50 gold coin - which it is. It doesn't state damage, it also doesn't state no damage. The pictures are AWFUL. Looks ex-jewelry in the photo but the exact condition is not at all obvious. It is exactly the kind of item that I wouldn't even take a shot on at melt.
This is exactly the kind of situation that the sellers on this board worry about with eBay pushing the "free return" policy: that buyers will take a shot at something. When it either isn't better than advertised or can't quickly be flipped for a profit, they will simply return it and leave the seller hanging.
This is a transaction guaranteed to leave everyone unhappy. Good luck!
Guess I'm missing something here, the OP bid on and won a $2.5 quarter eagle and this is what the OP received from the seller. You can clearly see in pictures the edge damage, seller never made any mention of condition in the listing. Now if the seller said BU or AU in the listing then received a jewelry piece it would be item not as described. In this case the OP received exactly what was described and seller clearly states no returns accepted, so why on earth would ebay side with the buyer? Seems like the OP was wanting a better condition coin then what they actually bought.
Since i'm so good at being the devil's advocate, here's my 2 cents worth:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Based on the pictures and description I would have paid melt for it (slightly higher if during time of ebay bonus bucks etc.) I can clearly see from poor pictures from seller that coin is not good condition, appears to have edge damage, jewelry piece etc. Buyer received exactly what they bid on. I'm a bullion guy so I would have had no problem with it but I would have never bid over $160-$170ish either. It's the risk of buying raw coins on a place like ebay. I see no deception here. Sorry if the OP feels like they got screwed, shouldn't be bidding on auctions where seller doesn't accept returns if they cannot accept the item they purchased from picture/description in auction. Ask questions before bidding, it's not rocket science.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
You buy a coin on Ebay and it's not reasonable to expect a piece of ugly solder attached to it...UNLESS it was clearly mentioned in the description and/or a pic shown of it, in which both the seller obviously did not do.
It was a deceptive sale, we all know it, and the seller is acting like a punk with his inane reply to the buyer. I mean the seller technically scammed the buyer, and the seller is threatening legal action? Almost hard to believe.
The advice about no further communication with this seller is absolutely right. From here on, only communicate with Ebay, and follow their exact instructions on how to return the coin and get a refund.
Pinhead seller who salivates over money without regard to all the ethics connected to the hobby business he is running.
Make sure to leave negative feedback to warn other potential buyers. That is the only way to stop this from happening to others in the future.
Seller is just trying to bully you into keeping the coin, if the item was not described correctly and you post pictures in the return you should be fine. Make sure to keep your receipt after you send the coin back so you have proof you shipped it and the weight...as the seller may try to pull another quick one.
Pursue your case through ebay by the rules. You will win. Do not communicate further with the scammer...these blowhards always threaten...though likely their past is littered with issues and they do not want any attention that would cause further scrutiny. Hang in there...Cheers, RickO
ALWAYS FOLLOW THIS RULE.
DO NOT BUY COINS OFF EBAY FROM SELLERS THAT DO NOT ACCEPT RETURNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry to hear that you've got this situation. I've had similar experiences and even though I knew that it would resolve in my favor it was always upsetting.
The occasional jert is shocking.
Follow what ebay tells you to do for the return/SNAD and you should be fine.
I had someone to chargeback on me recently on the 89th day after the sale. He told his CC company unauthorized charge. Paypal sided with me since I did everything right.
Just follow what they need, return with signature, etc.
that's why I never buy ungraded gold coins, nor do I sell them. the guy must have seen the damage on the rim, he just doesn't want it back
I think he inherited coins are something and he knows nothing about condition and he thinks your going to send back a different coin ?
It surprises me so many think it is my fault. The edge damage is clearly not shown or described. If you can tell for sure from the seller pictures that there is solder on the edge, you have great eyes. Once you know it is there, sure, you can tell where it probably is. It is a sellers responsibility to accurately show/describe a coin.
Seems like a lot of trouble for something that should of been in a melt pot long ago.
And yes it should of been sold with full disclosesure.
Lame seller. Doesn't even bother to mention solder? Really? Now he's threatening you? Geez. Any legit seller would have mentioned 'ex-jewelry'. You'll be fine. Follow the eBay procedures and you'll be whole again soon. These rules exist for the complete knuckle-heads like this.
I'd say 'good luck', but you won't need it!
Dave
At least you've outed him here. As others have said-be sure to leave him some nice feedback.
saw you listed this for sale on instagram. Did you do that before initiating a return? If so (and I assume you wouldn't list it AFTER initiating a return) seems a little iffy to buy a coin with no returns, try and flip it then initiate a return when it doesn't sell, regardless of how scummy the seller is.
You also didn't put ex-jewelry on your listing either. You may have mentioned it to interesting parties but why not make it clear in your listing especially after just being surprised with it yourself?
I put it up for less than I paid to see if there was any interest so I didn't have to bother returning it. This was after the seller made it clear they would try to lie and say I returned a different coin. And yes, I am making it clear to those interested the damage, which is why I still have it
I would rather take a loss on it rather than deal with the seller potentially scamming me, but it looks like I will have to take my chances with him.
As a seller, you MUST disclose all problems with any coin, or have large pics that show the problem that openly show the potential buyer. If I sell a cleaned coin and the pictures show an obviously cleaned coin, I still say "cleaned coin" in my description. If there are large scratches, small scratches, bumps, dents, rim dings...whatever, I list it and show it with pics. I leave nothing to chance to the best of my ability.
There are sellers out there that I will NEVER do business with again because they sneakily sell a coin without disclosing problems. Their attitude is buyer beware. Well my attitude back is FU.
This seller is in the wrong 100%. You cannot have a pic that omits problems, or have pics that only slightly, barely show it and expect the buyer to extrapolate what cannot be seen. Return the coin and sleep well.
Tyler
Seems simple enough. Never buy a raw coin unless ALL 3 sides (Obv,Rev. and edge) are represented by photographs. Or ask about the areas not represented by a photo within the listing.
I'm not sure I'd say it's your "fault". The seller is being an ass - and frankly has no leg to stand upon. However, this listing had "stay away" in red neon all over it:
Online auction websites like eBay cannot be completely trusted when it comes to buying expensive or rare coins. It is always better to buy these coins from a trusted website or auction house. It does not matter much when you are looking for buy silver or copper coins because these coins are generally cheaper.
It was an auction. You were the winning bidder. ebay will side with you but I don't agree with your practice of winning an auction, being the sole bidder, only to change your mind . It almost appears as one “ gaming” the venue. Now, if you knew risks are involved (buying a raw coin) , And accepted that possibility, ( at that price), you should own up to your own mistake. I also am one to give full disclosure AND offer a buyback on anything I sell. Yet, I always looked at auctions as having that CAVEAT.
The seller should accept returns, and you shouldn’t be buying raw coins.
I'm with the seller here, you got what you bid on.
You don't think the seller has an obligation to disclose that there's a hunk of solder on the edge of the coin (which isn't pictured) ?
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Feedback on the other gold coins was positive. If your picture is any indication, you are a much better "grader" of gold than the seller.
Did you ask for more pictures, knowing that the pictures on ebay were lousy or rolling the dice in a no lose situation for yourself. If it was a sleeper, you win, if not, make the seller pay shipping both ways.
I am with the seller on this one.
Either buy a solder sucker (yes, that is the correct name) and fix it, melt it, or put it back in jewelry and be done with it, but you keep it.
The coin, at MS63, would have basically been a break even, and the rim damage is visible in the picture on ebay. Rim damage being something a collector would see and take into account but a non collector would not discern.
There are NUMEROUS "trusted" sellers on eBay.
Yes, the seller has an obligation. But, when the seller fails to disclose much of anything and supplies a ridiculously poor photo as well, caveat emptor. All it says is "gold $2.50". It makes no attempt to indicate degree of preservation at all.