Another question about the $5 Indians - Cuds?
asheland
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So on my newp $5 Indian from yesterday, I noticed a die chip on the date, it's almost impossible to see in my crappy picture, but I noticed the tru-view on coinfacts, one of the examples has the exact same chip in the same place:
(coinfacts pic)
Is this normal?
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There are several interesting die varieties among $2.50 and $5 Indian gold. Only limited research and publication has been undertaken so far.
Retained cuds are fairly common for some dates. I have never seen a major cud on one of these coins when the chunk fell out of the die. I'll try to dig up some images. Fred will know if they exist.
@Insider2 I would love to see any pics you can find. Thank you!
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I have been collecting $2 1/2 Indians for a long time, and have a bunch of interesting cuds, cracks, etc set aside. The most famous is the large reverse cud on the 1927 along the bottom. There is a die chip in the date on some 1908 $2 1/2 Indians like your picture looks like as well.
@jwitten Very interesting! I have not paid much attention to this series, but needed the piece for my type set.
Once I get an example, I study it very closely and find things like this very interesting.
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As you know, in order to be considered a "cud" I don't recall ever seeing, there needs to be a smooth, large lump of gold along the rim with no design present.
What about a retained cud?
As I posted above, those are the only large ones I've seen: "Retained cuds are fairly common for some dates."
I have seen this die chip in the date before. Not sure that it is significant.
A cud is on the rim....yours is a die chip.... I checked my 1909 and I do not have that chip.... Cheers, RickO
Interesting. Thanks guys!
@ricko Is yours the 1909-P?
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@asheland...No, mine is the 1909D.....Cheers, RickO
well, well, this is interesting!!!
I supposed that a "cud" was typically associated with being at the rim so I went to the PCGS lingo webpage and BINGO, I found the following definition which is interesting if you consider the --- dentil/denticle --- discussinon elsewhere on page one:
cud --- An area of a coin struck by a die that has a complete break across part of its surface. A cud may be either a retained cud, where the faulty piece of the die is still in place, or a full cud, where the piece of the die has fallen away. Retained cuds usually have dentil detail if on the edge, while full cuds do not.
notice the PCGS use of the word dentil.
IMO, that's a great definition except for the one word. LOL, No matter, those guys were still in high school when other folks, (most dead) were "coining" numismatic terms and defining them.
A cud is on the rim....yours is a die chip
thank you, RickO, I missed your post.
The $2.50 and $5.00 coin dies were very different from the dies that were strike other U.S. coins. Since all of the devices were sunk INTO the coin, the devices on the dies had to be RAISED above the die surface, and NOT recessed into the surface. Therefore a die chip like this would be more common because it represents a piece that was broken off the rim of the "9" in the date. This not the first time that I have seen this feature on this issue of 1909 $5 Indian coins.
While that die chip doesn't add any value to that coin, it is certainly interesting and has sure generated a lot of discussion.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I find any error interesting as it provokes thought/discussion/debate, which in turn provides education/understanding as to it's cause(s) w/in the minting process.