Options
Report this Ebay seller of Carson City Counterfeits
donben
Posts: 16 ✭✭
Here is a listing from a seller in Australia who repeatedly sells counterfeit Carson City Morgan Dollars. I have informed Ebay to no avail. The only thing they will listen to is a public flogging by a concerned coin community to ban this seller.
Please help. You will be doing us all a great service.
Tagged:
0
Comments
An 1888cc is not a counterfeit. No coins were minted in CC in '88 and thus this does not "copy" any US mint made coin. It's a fantasy piece and ebay may let it go. I did send the seller a polite message and perhaps he's forthright and will remove.
bob
PS: it is a cloudy area for sure, just ask Mr. Carr, et al.
AUandAG your point is well taken. it is a counterfeit if the seller represents it as a real coin
Yes, it is a counterfeit. The date is immaterial. All that is required is a likeness or similarity to any real legal tender. The key inscriptions to make a counterfeit are: a legal tender denomination (i.e., 'One Dollar') and legal issuing authority (i.e., 'United States of America'). Misspellings and abbreviations don't change counterfeit condition; if it could be mistaken for money or used in place of money, then it's covered by counterfeiting laws. That is why metal slugs fall under the same law and penalties.
The seller of this coin did not respond to a polite suggestion to remove his listing on a previous occasion. He will only listen to eBay sanctions.
Roger, I agree with the premise you stated but since this is a non circulating coin (50 years now) I'll have to disagree that this is still legal tender. It's not fooling anyone any longer as they are collector coins now not circulating coins (collectors know the difference). Yes, it appears that it may harm the collecting community but not the public as it would if it were a modern issue that is still being circulated. Legally, you are correct but practically nobody will enforce the law on this. The SS will have none of it.
that is one ugly fake cc morgan. what's up with the very high shipping?
.
what a terrible counterfeit.
I’m in the “see no problem, it’s a fantasy peice camp.”
It reminds me of this..
AUandAG. The real question here is "Does it violate eBay policy?" If so he should be reported. eBay only responds to complaints when they receive a large number against a particular item or seller
That couldn't fool a blind man. Sorry but I see this as paying tution if someone buys it.
far as i recall, they don't accept any kind of copy of a US coin.
here is a an S to go with the CC
If it has an omega on it it's perfectly legal.
....Is this joke old yet?
Collector, occasional seller
RE: "I agree with the premise you stated but since this is a non circulating coin (50 years now) I'll have to disagree that this is still legal tender."
It doesn't matter if the piece is or ever was a legal tender. If it looks like a coin or acts like a coin - regardless of date or composition - it is legally a counterfeit. A slug is covered by the same laws, even though it never had any legal tender status. Stamping pieces that would fool a vending machine is sufficient proof of counterfeiting. That is the consistent opinion of courts for generations; and also of Treasury Dept lawyers.
So, point me to a recent arrest and conviction for such spurious activity.
bob
PS: The Australian Federal Police do not look kindly on counterfeiting.
There are many thousands of convictions for counterfeiting. You can search the case law or get a para-legal to help you. You can get your questions answered by writing to:
Paul Wolfteich, Esq., Chief Counsel
U.S. Department of Treasury
1500 Pennsylvania Ave., N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20220
Include photos and other information to help the Chief Counsel's Office better understand. If you include sample counterfeits, they won't be returned.
eBay has a specific report for this:
The item in this listing is a replica coin, replica paper money, or replica stamp that has not been clearly marked as a reproduction, replica, or copy.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I totally agree they are illegal and report many of them every day....I've reported this one as well. However, I do not believe that the Feds would do sh*t about this stuff. Especially the fact that it is not in the US. The last case I recall was an ebay seller from the upper midwest that was using ebay for selling and importing from China the fakes. Multiple sales and an importer to boot. I have spoken to our local SS office regarding fake coins from China and they have no interest. Said I need to get ebay to ban them. They did encourage me to notify them of counterfeit US dollars, but not coin.
bob
If he is in Australia maybe we inform the UN and let them go after the seller. A Universal cease and desist mandated by our Sovereign UN Charter. I am sure it would have teeth.
I do believe that the U.S. Secret Service is the least bit interested in these cases. However, it would seem that eBay, too, has little desire to enforce its policy regarding counterfeit coins.
That must be addressed by someone in authority at eBay. Maybe I need move this conversation to an eBay forum instead.
Ebay is rife with 'counterfeit' coins.... Forum members report these almost daily.... they disappear, then appear either elsewhere (other venue) or reappear on ebay a month later. Reporting helps, we should not stop that effort, however, it is corrective, not preventive. Cheers, RickO
Gone!
I have started a post on the eBay forum and have already been chastised for doing so.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Collectibles-Art/Report-this-seller-of-Counterfeit-Carson-City-Morgan-Dollars/m-p/28217376/highlight/false#M89234
it appears that someone at eBay is listening. Thank you everyone who reported this listing.
And another one just popped up from the UK. https://www.ebay.com/itm/183115804321?ul_noapp=true
question 1 : have these or any silver dollars ever demonitized or declared invalid in the USA?
2: what are the penalties for selling, possession or making fake currency in the USA?
and 3; not so much a question but a statement . If someone makes or attempts to make currency depicting US money, the actual item has to be made BEFORE to word "copy " or similar is applied to the item. Hence the forgery is made before the item is stamped as a copy etc...and therefore the fact of making a forgerie is 100% satisfied.
so, according to Canadian law, Ebay is totally full of it.
The U.S. Mint did not issue Morgan Silver Dollars at the Carson City Mint from 1886 through 1888 which is why it is easy to determine that any Carson City dollars with these dates are not real.
Another counterfeit 1888-CC to report. Do you think eBay will ever figure it out?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Morgan-dollar/183130421970?hash=item2aa36c7ad2:g:SiMAAOSw10haq8kN
That’s the reason why there is a little risk when you are buying coins from eBay. Though this particular 1888c is technically not a counterfeit, there have been many cases where the seller might increase the market value of coins or sell fake coins.
after giving your post some more thought, you may be onto something. ebay standards and HPA are not mutually exclusive and ebay while not accepting copies/counterfeits, i'm not sure about the "fantasy" standard. the item is obviously in violation of HPA but ebay, i concede, i am not certain.
since it is a "fantasy" date, there is minor risk a dealer/collector would be fooled.
it is in violation of the HPA and in such likeness as to be made, almost certainly to deceive, i lean towards removal since HPA supercedes ebay policy and if illegal by US federal law, ebay should be held to that standard. i also concede that this is a debatable subject with nuances on a few fronts.
i thank you for helping me to work out the distinction(s).
.
While I TOTALLY agree with NO COUNTERFEITS, etc.
What is wrong with the listing? I read HPA violation, etc.
If it is in Australia, I doubt HPA applies. Is there an AUSTRALIAN law that applies to a NON AUSTRALIAN coin (or coin not part of the commonwealth) probably made in China imported to Australia? If the coin was sent to the US, then a problem exists.
I doubt the US Secret Service or Treasury Department cares about a Chinese counterfeit of a US coin that never existed in Australia.
The US government has made counterfeit currency to disrupt another nation, by the millions, so apparently, it must be OK to do so,
It is a counterfeit if the seller represents the coin as genuine. Until eBay changes its rules coins like these are prohibited from sale on eBay.
Another from West Virginia: https://www.ebay.com/itm/392004068450?ViewItem=&item=392004068450
This listing (392004068450) has been removed, or this item is not available.
Please check that you've entered the correct item number
Listings that have ended 90 or more days ago will not be available for viewing.
It is a counterfeit because it is represented as a genuine U.S. coin. It is also a counterfeit because it could be stuck in a roll of genuine coins to take up the space and passed as such. if each coin in a roll must be examined by hand to determine if it is genuine, you have the makings of fraud which impede the course of business.
I am really tired of this “fantasy coin” excuse. I’m with Roger. If it looks like a U.S. coin, with no markings on it that label it as a “COPY” or something similar, it is a counterfeit, therefore illegal.
What if the Chinese or North Koreans flooded this country with $100 bills that had everything right on them except the series date, would you be so supportive then? Of course you wouldn’t. The same concept applies here.
Another counterfeit to report: https://www.ebay.com/itm/382455671218?ViewItem=&item=382455671218