Best options on problem certified gold coins
logger7
Posts: 8,631 ✭✭✭✭✭
I bought a better date gold coin, certified by PCGS as MS62: 
You can see the bondo/putty issue to some extent.
I dipped it myself in xylene and acetone, and predictably NGC downgraded it scans: 
So what do you do if you get a coin with a problem like that? PCGS guarantee/warranty submissions take months usually. In this case had PCGS downgraded it, I would have gotten a small credit as there is not much of a difference in price between a 61 and 62. I could have sent it to NGC conservation which runs $50 a coin, and often they refuse to take the chance unless it is in their holder.
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I had a similar situation happen a few years back with a $5 Indian half eagle that was in a PCGS holder graded AU55. I remember showing Mike Kittle this coin at a local show, and noticed some filmy material on the surfaces which did not look right. Mike went ahead and sent it in for guaranteed grade review. Two months later, I got the coin back in the new pcgs holder with the same grade, and that filmy residue was removed. I only ended up paying for the $10 reholdering fee. The coin looks much nicer now...
I recently purchased a $10 lib slabbed MS62, the obverse is clearly improperly cleaned. Wasn't really concerned as it was one of those bonus ebay deals that got the coin under spot so was just buying for gold content anyway. Does amaze me that an improperly cleaned coin ended up graded problem free 62. May be time for the graders to spend more than 6 seconds grading a coin. Just saying.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Nothing you can do at this point!
Not much you can do. It's an OK AU - just as it always was. The field disturbance is a dead giveaway.
@logger7
This is some advice for most of you and others. Problem is, most will ignore it. You can skip down to the bold print now...
I've been cleaning things my entire life. I started cleaning coins at ANACS in 1972 (for free) in order to get the crud away from the mint mark so we could authenticate them. I volunteered to "conserve" a coin while a grader at a TPGS. The grade went up and I was asked to do another that day. A conservation service was started. I learned some tricks from longtime dealers. Most of them would be called coin doctors by the "uninformed." You never stop learning and I consider myself still a rookie after conserving coins professionally for a very long time. There are members posting here who know more about conserving coins than I ever will as I'm not a professional chemist.
DON'T TOUCH YOUR COINS unless you are extremely good at it and even then there is no guarantee they won't "blow up!" Folks over my skill level do things to coins to make them more presentable to the uninformed. I have made it my business to detect their work and weed out the ones that are not considered "market acceptable." Many coins have natural or artificial "skin." The OP removed it and paid the price.
@blitzdude said: "I recently purchased a $10 lib slabbed MS62, the obverse is clearly improperly cleaned...[it] does amaze me that an improperly cleaned coin ended up graded problem free 62. May be time for the graders to spend more than 6 seconds grading a coin. Just saying."
I disagree. I suggest you open the ANA Grading Guide and read what is acceptable on a coin graded MS-61 and MS-62. The problem has nothing to do with the amount of time it takes the professional graders to examine your coin.
The 02s was the same before and after the dip in terms of marks. Dipping in acetone or xylene even using a Q tip on the fields to get the bondo or putty off that was doctored to simulate luster, did not affect the luster.
The problem with professional conservation is that NGC will half the time either do an overly conservative job or refuse to conserve a coin that is in a PCGS holder. PCGS takes 2-3 months or more to address problem issues on certified coins.
What you do is send it back to PCGS for a Guarantee Resubmission. In this case PCGS would have conserved it properly and, assuming it downgraded, sent you a check for the lost value (as big or small as that may be). There would have been no cost to you.
What you don't do is conserve it yourself unless you're looking for nothing more than personal satisfaction and don't mind the added expense of regrading, S/I, etc.
Lance.
Here is another problem certified PCGS gold coin that sold last night. Putty/bondo, it should conserve OK, but not worth strong money with all the challenges involved with problem coins. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Outstanding-1888-S-PCGS-MS-62-United-States-20-Dollar-90-Gold-Coin-NN57-/382394382001?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&nma=true&si=8%2BpqcYVsda5Xcw4NTbZpscuMKQI%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
A few years ago I bought a PCGS certified gold coin that had been treated with iodine. Once I picked it up, I took it to PCGS. There was an up-front fee, and I had to wait a couple of months, but they settled the issue much to my satisfaction. They refunded the up-fromt fee and shipping and bought the coin from me. I could have taken the coin back in a lower grade holder and a check to make up the difference.
You should have taken this piece to them first. Once you cracked it out of the holder, you voided the warranty. Then you fixed it. You would have been much better off if you had go to PCGS in the first place.
The problems I have had with guarantee submissions with PCGS are too much; you wait 3 months for their verdict and possible conservation. First they try to get you to send it in under "restoration" where you have to foot the bill. Then if they agree it is "restoration" worthy you play by their rules. NGC is a lot faster, "guarantee" is their middle name. Even if you are successful I have been charged for return shipping, which they will refund if you catch it. Type or slightly better gold trades in a tight range. With NGC's gold tier, one week grading generally. BTW the coin looked a little "cleaned" when it was in the PCGS holder. Enough luster to straight grade.
One of the two or three primary reasons to buy coins in slabs (or paying to submit your own) is the grade guarantee. If you aren’t willing to avail yourself of that, why not just buy raw coins?
I think you probably did the best you could with a bad buy. The downgrade to MS61 is a $110 hit (using CPG) to $1640. It is more sellable now. Your other alternative would have been blowing it out on the bay starting it at melt. Tough to know how much above that it would have brought. Of course the other choice would have been the PCGS conservation route but no idea on what that verdict would have been too late now.
This is the nature of the coin business, we all occasionally make bad buys. I would just put it in my online store at $1650 (free shipping). Any loss vs cost reduces my tax bill. It appears really nice after being conserved and should attract buyers.
I don’t buy big ticket coins except sight seen (show) and no interest in anything more than about $300 (my risk limit) above melt. This coin appears in that range or close and I have done some bulking up on such DE (slabbed) deals.
Before buying any coin deal my biggest concern is what can I sell it for now.
There are no free rides in numismatics or sure things in the coin business. Risk and tuition is a fact of life, just take responsibility and deal with it. Numismatic Investment is risky and volatile especially considering current market conditions one needs develop a budget and risk limit.
Coins like this are why I carry a loupe, ultraviolet light, flashlight etc., at shows..... online buys demand even more caution....You did what you did...was it the best option? I would have done something different, but your coin, your choice. I am sure you learned something... Good luck in the future...Cheers, RickO
So the grading guide states it is OK to grade an improperly cleaned coin as problem free MS62?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@blitzdude asked: "So the grading guide states it is OK to grade an improperly cleaned coin as problem free MS62?
Y: I was taught that when we look something up for ourselves, the answer lasts longer and often leads to further knowledge. As a teacher, I have found it is best to lead someone to information rather than spit out an answer to their question. Hopefully, you'll understand this tactic one day.
E: Did you do this: "I suggest you open the ANA Grading Guide and read what is acceptable on a coin graded MS-61 and MS-62."
S: If you don't have that book, I'll suggest you get one. Do not buy any edition other than the 7th! There is a chart in the dollar section that will answer your question. After looking at the chart, read the introduction. Then buy Grading Coins by Photographs and read the introduction. If you do what I suggest, you will know more than many of the posters here. Best of all, you'll have your question and more answered.
Wouldn't even know where to buy the ANA grading guide and frankly not really all that interested.
The main reason I purchased slabbed coins is because they are supposedly looked at by an expert in the field and graded accordingly. One would hope these experts could weed out authentic problem coins as well as counterfeits. While I have learned much in my short time on this forum (and very much from you I might add) I am also quickly learning that many of these graders appear to not have a clue. Either that or their eyes have gone bad or 6 seconds is simply not enough time to accurately authenticate anything. Thanks for answering my question Mr. Insider2.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
@blitzdude,
I don’t know if it’s relevant here but the stuff applied to coins is often very difficult to detect when the coins are graded, only slowly becoming visible over time.
TOUGH LOVE
from me 
to you 
: Unless you can read between the lines, I didn't answer your question that deals with a subject you are not interested in: Coin Grading!
Unfortunately, until you learn more about TPGS, professional graders, grading coins, and numismatics in general, you will just be cluttering up the forms with uninformed nonsense such as this: "I am also quickly learning that many of these graders appear to not have a clue. Either that or their eyes have gone bad or 6 seconds is simply not enough time to accurately authenticate anything."
Until you have the desire to learn more, it's best to stick with coins graded by our host. Good Luck!