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Hairlines vs Rub vs Grade
thevolcanogod
Posts: 270 ✭✭✭
Still learning so hopefully folks can help me understand. I can pick up rub on a coin - that would pretty much separate an AU from an MS. But what about hairlines? I see some of the coins I’m collecting now with one here and there or a couple across the devices but no patch of rub. Would this be what is called an MS60-62 slider? Or is that something with a little bit of high point rub but booming luster?
How does the presence of a couple hairlines on, say, a 1951 proof Franklin or a 1947D Roosevelt dime affect the grade given? Would something like this be called improperly cleaned or does it need to look pretty well wiped for that?
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Your question is important and would take a while to answer completely and accurately. I'll toss a few things out as it's my bedtime.
The thing about hairlines is that most coins have them under magnification. The best way to see them is to tip and rotate your coin in a dark room under a 75 - 100W lamp. Random hairlines can be detracting. Patches of hairlines can lower a coin's MS grade. Look at the ANA grading guide for an indication how hairlines affect the MS grade. Not all coins with hairlines have been cleaned! The hairlines most of us look for are parallel and excessive or curved and excessive. These can indicate a "wheel mark," improper cleaning, or whizzing. Hairlines are one of the major defects that affect a proof coins grade because they are more obvious on a mirror field.
What Insider2 said.
The TPGs hate hairlines, especially long ones or patches of them.
The more common the coin, the more severe beating you will receive if you miss a couple of them.
Here are several views of the same 1836 half eagle. Please take into account that my photos almost always show every mark is on a coin X 3 or 4. This coin also has P-L surfaces which serve to emphasize every mark. (Would I have liked to have seen this coin when it was brand new! It had the makings of an MS-67.)
This is piece is a PCGS MS-61. I think that the grade is accurate. If you swirl this coin under a light, the cartwheel luster is not broken. It is impaired, but it is still there. As for the devices, there is no rub. They are as sharp as the day it was struck.
And here is an 1836 half eagle that is in a PCGS AU-58 Old Green Label holder. This is also accurately graded, and I think that you can see the difference. The combination of marks crosses the line just enough to make it an AU-58.
@BillJones..... Excellent examples of hairlines and what they do to grades..... Cheers, RickO
So friction rub in any form will knock a grade down to AU. But also an abundance of hairlines can also knock the grade down to AU. Some visible hairlines but no rub would result in a MS60-62 "slider" grade. Minor single or a small number of hairlines would subtract from the technical grade but as long as there is no rub, it could still merit a higher grade. Is this pretty much accurate?
Here's an example. I just got a 1947S in (was billed as a raw 64 - uh huh) to replace one that I have with some hairlines. Unfortunately when I got it, it has even more hairlines than my original (lower bust - see blown up photo), plus some field breaks on the reverse (on the lower right oak leaf cluster and UM of Unum). Am I right in grading this as an AU58? If the rub wasn't there, would this be more a MS61-62?
I would grade that 1947-S Roosevelt Dime as a Mint State coin, but that mark in the neck is a big distraction if it is as large in person as it is in the photo. Because of that, my grade would MS-62.
That isn’t a hairline, that’s just a scratch. It would probably grade around MS63 but for that coin it doesn’t matter as it’s worth around $2 either way. You should be able to find a raw 66 for a few dollars so keep looking!
Looks like a scratch on the 47. In my opinion if a scratch like that was on a Mercury Dime and in the same place, main focal point, the coin would not straight grade at all.
Ken
There’s actually more hairlines around that area - the one you can see is the biggest and stands out better I guess because of the lighting. I’m finding them hard to photograph and bring them out to be honest. Or maybe I’m just being to picky with my assessment? The ones I’m taking about are barely visible to the naked eye but easily visible with a 10x
It looks like maybe something the clear plastic covers in an album did - all of them are pretty much in one direction and they’re not not die polish lines - those I can definitely spot.
I wish to clarify some of the posts above....of course, all IMO:
MS and non MS coins are graded differently. Once a coin is determined to have enough loss of surface on a high point (NOW A PERSONAL and SUBJECTIVE determination due to the commercial grading system
) things such as random hairlines, scratches, and marks usually are less of a consideration that the actual amount of the design lost due to friction wear.
When grading a MS coin all factors are considered. A starting point for determining how marks, hairlines, luster, and eye appeal relate to each MS grade can be found in the ANA grading guide. No mention is made of spots or scratches.
The only thing that can make a coin AU is wear! However, once a coin's value was introduced into the grading equation, it all went south. That's why we can find MS coins priced at AU levels and the "old" AU-55's priced as MS!