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Better Date Morgan Slider
logger7
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I thought this 86-O Morgan would go MS61, but ICG saw it as not "new" I guess. Could this end up in an Unc. holder at PCGS/NGC?
I had a few pictures of the coin, and with the comments here agree that it is accurate at AU58, possibly PL. I would check out the PCGS coinfacts page for links to auctions on business strikes. I compared with PL coins that NGC assigns even to AUs and it looks close to that.
Sorry for misunderstandings here as I did not reject best analysis here, but rather personal attacks, which forum rules prohibit.
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Really difficult to say from those pictures... they seem very 'bright' and I cannot determine much detail. Cheers, RickO
I doubt it. That date and mm combo is like an 84-S, very hard to get into an unc. holder. I bought one raw once that Pcgs said was AU-58, cracked it out and sent to Anacs and they gave it a 62. Good luck with it.
Tough images, but from what I can see, looks right.
AU58 is probably the limit on that one. I've cropped out the first spot I look at on these for wear, and I see wear. The arrow points to a patch on Liberty's neck which is the first place the luster tends to get broken. Note the different shade from areas just to the left and right of it. If you stand the slab on edge on a white piece of paper and look down at the coin, you'll see the reflection of the paper as a gray patch in the area with rub, and white in the other areas.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Great "diagnostic" @messydesk , thanks for sharing your knowledge here...I love to learn.
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I would evaluate it in current grade using my CDN app. It looks very nice but there is no guarantee on what our hosts would grade.
I have bought a couple of ICG coins where the price is very attractive (below bid) either sell as is or crack / send in.
If it’s on the bay will take look.
Like any coin deal be decisive, take responsibility, and go with your grading skills / business sense gut feel.
If it’s $165 or lower would consider. Sell wb $300-$350 range.
I updated the first post with a couple pics.; actually I paid $350 for the raw coin, thought it was probably Unc. and semi-pl.
I would send it in to PCGS
BHNC #203
Based on the newer images, it is AU. Sending it in again will only add more money to your cost and they might not even grade it 58. It might go 55 or details.
I disagree. I showed it to a professional 40 plus year numismatist yesterday who saw it as just on the line with Unc.. Compare to Coinfacts pictures in the 58/61 holders, as collectors are usually unduly harsh. I've had coins assessed on the forums as no grade problems straight grade and get cac approved. So who are the experts really? Those who put money behind their grading.
So send it in then! Why did you send it to ICG to begin with? News Flash: PCGS is more conservative than ICG.
Good luck with the coin.
It looks nice to me. I look at the cheek and Eagle's breast feathers. But it's not my series so I would listen to the Morgan people here. JMHO and your money.
Dude asks for opinions on the coin, then disagrees with the opinion!
OK. $10 says it doesn't come back from PCGS with an MS grade.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Put me down for $100 please.
Nice Coin...does look semi-PL from here...I would take the above Action and go for it...why not, and the $110 will cover the submission cost if u are correct...if not...at least you went out like a man
AU or MS, it's a nice looking coin and I'd personally rather own it in PCGS plastic.
I believe it to be AU58 FWIW
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That's what I would do...crack it.....send to PCGS for grade. It belongs in PCGS. But I wouldn't do the bets. But that is the "chicken" and "hate to lose money" in me.
Your 'slider' already 'slid.' It seems correctly graded at AU. Disturbance in the field and rub as indicated by a previous poster are ample evidence that the coin is not uncirculated.
However, it is a nice looking coin. In my opinion, it should sell for more than a typical MS-60, 61 - those coins are usually banged up and baggy.
I don't know what games this guy is playing but the coin just sold last night on eBay.
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Very very strange.
I sold it at break even and wanted to get another opinion before I shipped it out.
It reminds me of the guy who asked about his 1921 Mercury dime that recently graded MS64 fb both in his coin club and here a bunch of people, even one significant dealer in the club called it an AU.
Who me? I'm not paranoid lol. Looks PL to me as for grade 58 looks about right.
I thought you were sending it in to host based on OP then someone pointed out it just sold on fleabay last night. That seemed strange, no paranoia here.
Please go to "Coin Facts" and compare this coin to low level Mint State coins that are shown there in the Mint State "View all images" section. All of the MS-61 graded coins are nicer than the OP piece.
My take on this coin is that it has been dipped and not properly rinsed along with a possible light rub. The mint surfaces are impaired with extensive holes in the reflective surfaces. Don't waste you money on grading fees. "Mint State" is not in this coin's future unless you send it to the "fly by night" grading service.
The whole story does not add up. So you are Nutmegnumismatics? You argue here that the coin IS uncirculated, AFTER you sold it on eBay last night for $400? Blitzdude's Very Very Strange above is a correct statement.
Once you sell a coin online, ship it and forget it. It's the buyer's coin to post and talk about. The time for discussing its grade is before you list it.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
After disagreeing with us, he now takes the images down. For the record, the eBay auctions above were the coin images he posted as the ones he bought raw. I wonder what else he makes up around here?
Just out of curiosity you seem to have a bunch of ICG coins, just wondering is it a cost thing? Seems like you get better prices selling in a pcgs/ngc holders. Cheaper submission costs / higher grades?
I totally agree. Also the buyer should not start crowing or doing anything here until he gets the coin in hand. JMHO.
@Wabbit2313 said: "News Flash: PCGS is more conservative than ICG."
Unfortunately, I must recuse myself from giving a reply to this statement.
Just a friendly bump @logger7
Folks he did it again!
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
And the issue is? "Insider" who posts on this site is connected to long time grader and numismatist Skip Fazzari who works at ICG.
F. Michael “Skip” Fazzari
Numismatist
Skip is an internationally recognized professional numismatist who has been involved with coins in one way or another for most of his life. Skip became a professional numismatist in 1972 when he joined the American Numismatic Association Certification Service (ANACS) . While working for the ANA Certification Service, he served as the Chief Authenticator and taught at the ANA Summer Seminar. While in Washington, he routinely handled numismatic inquiries from the Secret Service, FBI, and the White House.
Since 1972, Skip has been involved in the development of coin authentication and grading. While at ANACS, he developed the “Die Scratch Method” of coin authentication which continues to be used today. He also devised the internal grading standards (Technical Grading) used at ANACS when it was located in Washington, DC and also those used at the International Numismatic Society Authentication Bureau (INSAB) which was the first third-party grading service in the U.S., predating ANACS by six months. As an instructor of the Advanced Grading and Authentication classes for the Institute of Numismatic and Philatelic Studies at Adelphi University in New York, he was elected to the Board of Overseers and given the honor of Distinguished Lecturer in Numismatics. He has been asked to testify as expert witness by the State of New York and the United States Federal Trade Commission.
For over forty-four years, Skip has provided expert services in authentication, grading and conservation of both U.S. and foreign coins. Previously, Skip was the principal numismatist, researcher, and variety specialist at three third party grading services. Skip joined ICG in 2008 after leaving the Numismatic Conservation Service (NCS), a non-grading division of NGC that Skip helped to establish.
Skip has written columns on grading and authentication for the Numismatist Magazine and currently has a column in Numismatic News.
Skip holds membership in the following professional organizations:
American Numismatic Association: LM#5734
Florida United Numismatists: #21665
Professional Numismatists Guild: #710