Interesting 1840 Eagle in Heritage Long Beach

breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭
edited January 12, 2019 6:43AM in U.S. Coin Forum

UPDATE on Jan 12, 2019: Just an update on the famous (sort of) 1840 eagle from Long Beach last year. I thought it would be interesting to see if the buyer upgraded it or attempted to do so.
Instead, I see that Mr. Hansen owns this coin and it is listed in his registry still as an AU55.

Lot 5803 in Heritage Long Beach is an AU55 in an OGH that is stickered. PCGS price guide is 3500 but coin is already bid up to 28,000. I guess someone thinks this might grade MS? Or maybe I am missing something else.

"It's a beautiful world.
So hold me tight. I had to fight
Every day of my life. It's a beautiful world."
Mudcrutch.
«13

Comments

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a 62 to me...

  • KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2018 11:12AM


  • specialistspecialist Posts: 963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had mentioned that to heritage Friday to make sure someone didn't add a few zero's. They confirmed two sharp major players were on it. WOW.

    Its already at full 62 money. That is what no gold being around will do. I would not be surprised if it hits $40,000.00!

  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 487 ✭✭✭

    Pretty amazing the bid on that coin. The whole collection is impressive in terms of completeness and varying quality in terms of each individual coin.

  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭

    I am just an observer but a few additional facts. CAC has stickered one 61 for that date and a couple 58s. In CoinFacts, David Akers said he had never seen an uncirculated 1840. I realize that is a statement from a long time ago with different grading standards but still interesting.
    And it is buried in the second tier of coins based on its AU55 grade.

    "It's a beautiful world.
    So hold me tight. I had to fight
    Every day of my life. It's a beautiful world."
    Mudcrutch.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 5,127 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Pleasant looking coin, but not IMO outstanding regardless....

    Too bad values are on the log scale as I have a PCGS53 with PL surfaces that had been passed down in my California family.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2018 2:37PM

    I miss the old days when circulation wear mattered.

    Edited to add: Actually, it would appear that both PCGS and Heritage are right on with this coin. The error would be if it were to upgrade after the sale solely because of the price, and not the coin itself.

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  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i personally do not think that coin is ms...not even close.

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @steveben said:
    i personally do not think that coin is ms...not even close.

    Call it AU62 if you like

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 21,618 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    I had mentioned that to heritage Friday to make sure someone didn't add a few zero's. They confirmed two sharp major players were on it. WOW.

    Its already at full 62 money. That is what no gold being around will do. I would not be surprised if it hits $40,000.00!

    How can you go from thinking 28K was a mistake to not being surprised at 40K?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @specialist said:
    I had mentioned that to heritage Friday to make sure someone didn't add a few zero's. They confirmed two sharp major players were on it. WOW.

    Its already at full 62 money. That is what no gold being around will do. I would not be surprised if it hits $40,000.00!

    How can you go from thinking 28K was a mistake to not being surprised at 40K?

    The fact that two real and experienced bidders are fighting it out is additional pertinent information for someone who hasn’t yet seen the coin.

  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,158 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @steveben said:
    i personally do not think that coin is ms...not even close.

    Call it AU62 if you like

    you value the coin at 62...and i'll concede that opinion is better than mine. i'm just saying that is not what mint state gold looks like.

  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The two lads are buying the coin not the holder...to place bids like that I'm guessing they've seen the coin in hand...out of my league...good luck to them!!!

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @steveben said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @steveben said:
    i personally do not think that coin is ms...not even close.

    Call it AU62 if you like

    you value the coin at 62...and i'll concede that opinion is better than mine. i'm just saying that is not what mint state gold looks like.

    I’m not saying it’s Mint State ...I’m saying it looks like a 62 from the pics

    Btw - here’s a Pcgs 58. Which would you rather own?

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's an obvious AU. But that does not establish its value for potential buyers.

  • specialistspecialist Posts: 963 ✭✭✭✭✭

    obviously, this coin is a great example of why you can't grade via an image.

  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 487 ✭✭✭

    Interesting that CAC did not give it a gold sticker. I think that if it were mint state, CAC most likely would have. They did give gold stickers to two other coins in the collection.
    I find it surprising that two bidders would duke it out so early. If one really thought the coin was such a great candidate for upgrade, one should wait to bid till the last minute. Why show your hand so early?

  • I grade the coin an easy PCGS 62 and it should CAC too.

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 15,097 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2018 10:22PM

    MS62, by today's standard, wouldn't surprise me. I like this coin.
    Lance.

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The coin is spectacular looking in hand. The coin looks uncirculated to me by today’s standards.

  • rickoricko Posts: 68,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is certainly a beautiful specimen... the reverse eagle really stands out with great detail.... I can understand why there are dueling bidders...Cheers, RickO

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No sticker might indicate a subtle issue with that coin.

  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 728 ✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't be surprised that it was a market graded coin by PCGS.

    A MS 62 downgraded to AU 55 because of some small amount of treatment or some kind of processing?

    No motto 10's are usually the most chewed up series and the 53 shown has great surfaces.

  • earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 487 ✭✭✭

    There are lots of neat coins in the auction. I think the 1846 and 1870 $10 are very neat coins too.

  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    No sticker might indicate a subtle issue with that coin.

    While bidding on the 1840 up to solid MS prices they better be sure that if this coin was in an AU58 holder, it would still get the CAC sticker. Otherwise, you just paid moon money for a slider. IMO, it does have a 62+ look even with the possible wear/friction HA mentions above the ear. Perhaps they are comparing it to the MS61 Bass coin.

    The 1841 has a lower MS look to me also. But thats only from photos....

  • jomjom Posts: 3,090 ✭✭✭

    Another classic example AU vs MS slider issue. I mean, if this coin was graded MS62 and it looked like a tractor ran over it would it be worth more than this AU55? Some coins are just worth more than others by how they look. Wear is just another attribute (like luster or marks or strike or whatever) and the AU "line drawn in the sand" vs. MS is arbitrary at best.

    jom

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 19,064 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s refreshing to see a coin bid up on its ow merits rather then a numberical grade. If that is what indeed is happening

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album





    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    No sticker might indicate a subtle issue with that coin.

    I imagine the scratches are the no stickering reason. That said it still is a hell of coin

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Laura just viewed the coin in hand and says lock 61/shot 62

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2018 1:31PM

    I was off the computer for a few days and this thread would take too long to sort out with all the "extra coins added.
    I'll just add this:

    @7Jaguars said:
    Just throwing in a couple of pictures, not to pirate thread...



    PL not showing well in photos...

    The coin you posted is so far below the one in the OP that I don't understand why it is posted. Did you wish to show what an ABOUT UNCIRCULATED and not close to Unc coin looks like? That coin better not be in a Mint State slab!

    @steveben said:

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @steveben said:
    i personally do not think that coin is ms...not even close.

    Call it AU62 if you like

    you value the coin at 62...and i'll concede that opinion is better than mine. i'm just saying that is not what mint state gold looks like.

    As for the coin in the auction. Sooner or later it will be graded "MS something." AU-55 is stupid! Perhaps a true "technical" AU-58 was net graded for the problems. Folks don't grade that way! Unfortunately, with all this publicity, the coin will probably not get upgraded to at least MS-62 right away. :)

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The wear appears in the iPhone pics but the details seems much stronger in the professional pics. In the end if Laura calls it a 61/shot 62 I'll go with that.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars said:
    Just throwing in a couple of pictures, not to pirate thread...



    PL not showing well in photos...

    This is why I HATE multi images in the same thread.

    @Boosibri I don't think either you or Laura is calling this coin MS. Am I correct?

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 19,908 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks really nice to me, but you could engrave what I know about gold on the head of a pin. :) :o B)


    All Dimes All Varieties

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    >RIP -image Rebecca 2004-2018...If love could have saved you - you would have lived forever<
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 7,985 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @7Jaguars said:
    Just throwing in a couple of pictures, not to pirate thread...



    PL not showing well in photos...

    This is why I HATE multi images in the same thread.

    @Boosibri I don't think either you or Laura is calling this coin MS. Am I correct?

    It looks like a slider to me

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2018 3:42PM

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Laura just viewed the coin in hand and says lock 61/shot 62

    By today's grading standards.

    What will it grade by the grading standards of five years from now? Higher or lower?

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  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @7Jaguars posted a coin surrounded by white insert w/prongs. I don't think "slider" is the right term for this coin. I suspect some strike weakness but that coin is closer to an XF-45 or AU-50 than to an MS-60. You and Laura must be posting about the coin at the top of the thread in the auction. Right?

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 18,976 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @7Jaguars said:
    Just throwing in a couple of pictures, not to pirate thread...



    PL not showing well in photos...

    This is why I HATE multi images in the same thread.

    @Boosibri I don't think either you or Laura is calling this coin MS. Am I correct?

    I don’t know what coin is pictured in the ngc holder. It looks cleaned to me

  • breakdownbreakdown Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭

    7Jaguars posted some iPhone pictures of his own NGC AU53 coin. It is unrelated to the coin in the auction but has caused some confusion.
    Glad I started this thread as I have learned more than a bit and I even got Laura's in-hand views.

    "It's a beautiful world.
    So hold me tight. I had to fight
    Every day of my life. It's a beautiful world."
    Mudcrutch.
  • ashelandasheland Posts: 13,755 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin!

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the clarification @breakdown. My faith is restored. :)

    That auction coin is going to take off as it will be graded MS one day! And my guess that "one day" MS grade
    will eventually be MS-63! Easily. :wink:

  • REALGATORREALGATOR Posts: 2,225 ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2018 3:51PM

    @breakdown said:
    7Jaguars posted some iPhone pictures of his own NGC AU53 coin. It is unrelated to the coin in the auction but has caused some confusion.
    Glad I started this thread as I have learned more than a bit and I even got Laura's in-hand views.

    And while the NGC coin is a decent example, 53 is a fairly generous grade and not in the same league as the coin in OP. Based on these photos. Pretty sure the 53 is entombed forever while the OP coin will be cracked out/crossed in a nanosecond after the hammer.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 11,826 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fresh? Lustrous? High end PQ? Ah,...Ok, if you say so.

    I prefer attractive, desirable, and very high grade for that date. I guess it is just a matter of words. Anyone care to post the auction catalogue description for the piece?

  • GazesGazes Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold eagles dont turn up in this condition very often. This collection will do well

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 19,064 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2018 5:06PM

    @Insider2 said:
    Fresh? Lustrous? High end PQ? Ah,...Ok, if you say so.

    I prefer attractive, desirable, and very high grade for that date. I guess it is just a matter of words. Anyone care to post the auction catalogue description for the piece?

    Here you go. FYI There is another 1840 piece in the very same auction. It’s bid is at $900. The OP coin is at $33,000.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album





    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I might quibble with the auction description, I do not think that dark line near star 5 is struck-in grease. Notice a parallel but lighter streak in the field out from the chin a bit, and several parallel streaks (remember to flip the coin top to bottom in your head) on the reverse. These look like minor inclusions in the ingot, possibly copper but I could not say, that got rolled out with the planchet strip.
    TD

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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 27,054 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And does "a pleasing quotient of luster" mean "less than 100% luster?"

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