IF.... you're lazy and use website or seller photos...for YOUR use...

topstuf · February 8, 2018 2:11PM

Be sure to snag it a few minutes before you order it.
Some places leave the images up after it's on hold or sold and some don't.
Get it before you order it and be safe.

(yeah yeah...copyrights... I know)

Kkathyl · February 8, 2018 2:15PM

Not cool. If it is a mint item and you use stock photos that’s ok. Otherwise. No

lcoopie · February 8, 2018 2:16PM

Cool

Boosibri · February 8, 2018 2:19PM

@Kkathyl said:
Not cool. If it is a mint item and you use stock photos that’s ok. Otherwise. No

Really? I think that it is generally understood that if you buy the coin you can use the image. Might not own the copyrights but use is accepted.

Aotearoa · February 8, 2018 2:19PM

I always keep copies of the seller's photos (if they exist) for my own records. They're often better than anything I can do. Why not?

Kkathyl · February 8, 2018 2:25PM

I was thinking of Feebay sorry guys. I agree with what your saying but in Feebay they have rules against it. That's why I said no. Of course its fine for your records and on forums and alike.

ctf_error_coins · February 8, 2018 2:30PM

You have zero rights to the photographers photos

You could always ask tho ....

Dave99B · February 8, 2018 2:30PM

Oh h*ll yes.

Dave

1630Boston · February 8, 2018 2:44PM

I did ask and it was ok with whom I asked.

topstuf · February 8, 2018 3:08PM

I was thinking of making giftwrap.

ctf_error_coins · February 8, 2018 3:34PM

So you disagree with the law and think stealing is ok?

Do not be lazy and do just a little internet research into the law.

sparky64 · February 8, 2018 3:34PM

I usually ask.
Have never been told "no".

TommyType · February 8, 2018 3:39PM

Agree with sparky64.....I've asked on numerous occasions, and always been told, "Sure, no problem."

Most dealers don't care! They don't have the coin anymore, and the photograph was only a means to an end....a sale.

On the other hand, if they are taken by a professional photographer, they may care a lot. The photo WAS the end product. But even then, they will often tell you to go ahead and use the photo, as long as you give them credit.

Paradisefound · February 8, 2018 5:32PM

I used the same photos as I resold it; so it "goes" with the item.

uscoinguy · February 8, 2018 8:07PM

An eBay seller bought a coin from me on eBay- then used my pictures to list the item to sell his eBay store. He did not ask permission. i had to file a copyright claim with eBay and they made him take the pictures down. To me he was a lazy jerk.

Boosibri · February 9, 2018 12:17AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
You have zero rights to the photographers photos

You could always ask tho ...> @ErrorsOnCoins said:
So you disagree with the law and think stealing is ok?

Do not be lazy and do just a little internet research into the law.

Of course I don't disagree with the fact that one doesn't own the rights. Read my post in which I state that. I am saying that it is generally accepted from that once you purchase a coin, the dealer grants use of that image, not take on the rights/ownership of the image.

ACop · February 9, 2018 12:40AM

You gotta be a real uptight aho to care about someone using your pic. Unless they are making posters with it and selling it to make thousands. You snapped a pic, you didnt paint the mona lisa.

Zoins · February 9, 2018 12:49AM

@Boosibri said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
You have zero rights to the photographers photos

You could always ask tho ...> @ErrorsOnCoins said:
So you disagree with the law and think stealing is ok?

Do not be lazy and do just a little internet research into the law.

Of course I don't disagree with the fact that one doesn't own the rights. Read my post in which I state that. I am saying that it is generally accepted from that once you purchase a coin, the dealer grants use of that image, not take on the rights/ownership of the image.

I generally agree with this. While it may not be the law, I think it's common courtesy to allow the purchaser of a coin to use the photos.

If a seller doesn't want their customers to use photos of a coin they purchased, I think that should be explicitly stated. The notice may not be necessary from a legal perspective but nice from a common courtesy perspective to avoid misunderstandings.

topstuf · February 9, 2018 6:12AM

Dealers have even sent me the pix if I lose them.

I'm not proposing to use them to publish a book.
They're for records and "show n tell."

ricko · February 9, 2018 6:36AM

This is an issue that can become quite dangerous. The law is clear. However, common practice (especially in this digital age) is for individuals to just 'grab' pictures for casual use - and sometimes not so casual. All of a sudden one finds themselves in legal hot water. It may go smoothly 999 times out of 1000... but then the hammer comes down. For a while, a few years ago, this was a hot topic, and digital watermarks were introduced along with other protective measures. I would recommend caution in this area, though for personal use/records it will likely never become an issue. Cheers, RickO

ms70 · February 9, 2018 7:01AM

I could care less if anyone uses my photos. I'm not on an ego trip.

oih82w8 · February 9, 2018 7:14AM

I have asked the sellers to use the images and have not been told "no" yet.

blu62vette · February 9, 2018 7:16AM

When I really begin to care is when I see my pics very juiced up in major auction or eBay. There have been a few times I have seen this, once a customer called me to tell me a great coin he bought, I knew the coin was listed with juiced pics and he would be returning the coin, and he did.

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 7:19AM

@ms70 said:
I could care less if anyone uses my photos. I'm not on an ego trip.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with an ego trip.

It is about photographers rights and their right to EARN a living.

ms70 · February 9, 2018 7:19AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:

@ms70 said:
I could care less if anyone uses my photos. I'm not on an ego trip.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with an ego trip.

It is about photographers rights and their right to EARN a living.

How many people are stealing coin photos FOR THEIR OWN USE and making a living off them? Like......zero.

Anyone is welcome to my photos.

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 7:25AM

Yes I have had people steal my photos and then sell similar items using my professional photography and flooding the market with my image.

I used the law and brought that to a stop.

You can use other peoples photos for your own use, but you can not profit from them, like reselling a coin, without the photographers permission.

ElmerFusterpuck · February 9, 2018 7:48AM

I personally would not care if someone used or reused my photos to sell a coin I used to have, life's too short to be a copyright troll in the digital age. Yes, it might have taken some effort to get my skills down to get a decent image, but because of that it only takes less than a minute to do now. It's not 'hard work' anymore.

You might have a case if a seller used your pictures and turned up the juice to misrepresent the coin.

lcoopie · February 9, 2018 7:57AM

Perhaps placing a very noticeable watermark on those photos that you don’t want anyone else to use may alleviate some of the concerns that some of the posters have??

Zoins · February 9, 2018 8:33AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
You have zero rights to the photographers photos

This is not true in the United States. There are legal rights called fair use granted by the US government.

Both copyright and fair use are created by and granted by the US government so you get both, not one or the other.

Here's some information from the US Copyright Office on this:

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 8:44AM

LMAO, most here do not understand copyright law and now you want them to use the term fair use .....

Fair use is allowed in limited usage for parody, criticism, etc .....

Zoins · February 9, 2018 8:48AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Yes I have had people steal my photos and then sell similar items using my professional photography and flooding the market with my image.

I used the law and brought that to a stop.

You can use other peoples photos for your own use, but you can not profit from them, like reselling a coin, without the photographers permission.

There are, of course, abuses which you are talking about here. But you do also say people do have rights here, as opposed to your statement above.

An interesting thing to note is that when you post an image to eBay, you are granting eBay rights to your image which they can, and do, grant to others, e.g. WorthPoint. Here's some text from their terms of service:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/user-agreement.html#9

Content
When providing content using the Services (directly or indirectly), you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all Intellectual Property Rights (as defined above) you have in that content in connection with our provision, expansion, and promotion of the Services, in any media known now or developed in the future. To the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your right to enforce against eBay, our assignees, our sublicensees, and their assignees your Intellectual Property Rights in that content in connection with our, those assignees', and those sublicensees' use of that content.

Zoins · February 9, 2018 8:51AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
LMAO, most here do not understand copyright law and now you want them to use the term fair use .....

Fair use is allowed in limited usage for parody, criticism, etc .....

The funny thing is that you actually seem to agree with the OP's topic. It seems like you're adding your experience of having your photos abused to a discussion that didn't originally have it. The OP didn't provide any any details of use. It's okay to expand the discussion to note different uses, but you say (a) there are flat out no rights and then later you (b) indicate there are rights.

Title of the thread:

IF.... you're lazy and use website or seller photos...for YOUR use...

Your post:

You can use other peoples photos for your own use

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 8:56AM

I read the tread and the title dose not address it but the comments are always the same when SOME people think they can use internet photos for whatever they want which is untrue. Personal use is ok, use to resell an item, not ok unless you get permission from the photographer.

Zoins · February 9, 2018 9:02AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
I read the tread and the title dose not address it but the comments are always the same when SOME people think they can use internet photos for whatever they want which is untrue. Personal use is ok, use to resell an item, not ok unless you get permission from the photographer.

I think it's fine to have a discussion on what use is okay and not okay. Blanket statements can lead to misunderstandings, especially when you later say something that seems to contradict your own blanket statement.

The experience you had sounds abusive and I'm glad you were able to stop it.

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 9:10AM

Zions, you are confused. There is a difference between "rights" and "use".

You have no "rights" to other peoples photos altho in certain circumstances you may be able to "use" their photos

steveben · February 9, 2018 9:12AM

i think it's polite to ask before doing so.

Zoins · February 9, 2018 9:16AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Zions, you are confused. There is a difference between "rights" and "use".

You have no "rights" to other peoples photos altho in certain circumstances you may be able to "use" their photos

Is there a law or legal opinion that says fair use is not a "right"? Here's an interesting article that says fair use is in the Bill of Rights according to the opinion of the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS).

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150222/16392430108/reminder-fair-use-is-right-not-exception-defense.shtml

Reminder: Fair Use Is A Right -- And Not 'An Exception' Or 'A Defense'

It is a right that is protected by the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has regularly referred to "fair use" as a "safeguard" of the First Amendment, allowing copyright law to be compatible with the First Amendment.

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 9:21AM

Yes I am not a lawyer. I also do not think anyone here is planning on using a photo someone else took for parody. Maybe criticism . You have gone far beyond what the OP was thinking by going down the fair use road.

ctf_error_coins · February 9, 2018 9:26AM

Try using these photos for anything other than fair/personal use. My agents lawyers may want to have a talk with you ....

https://danitadelimont.com/results.asp?pixperpage=60&changewwwflag=1&txtkeys1=Christopher%20Talbot%20Frank&chkhorizontal=on&chkvertical=on&imgdate=mm/dd/yyyy&aspscreenwidth=1471

Zoins · February 9, 2018 9:27AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Yes I am not a lawyer. I also do not think anyone here is planning on using a photo someone else took for parody. Maybe criticism . You have gone far beyond what the OP was thinking by going down the fair use road.

You seem to limit fair use to parody and maybe criticism but this is not the case. I didn't see anyone else bring up these two. The following from the US Copyright Office indicates fair use covers nonprofit and noncommercial uses:

https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/more-info.html

Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair.

Your art situation seems to be covered by this US Copyright Office Fair Use page here:

Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work:

Effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work: Here, courts review whether, and to what extent, the unlicensed use harms the existing or future market for the copyright owner’s original work. In assessing this factor, courts consider whether the use is hurting the current market for the original work (for example, by displacing sales of the original) and/or whether the use could cause substantial harm if it were to become widespread.

Also, the main reason I brought up fair use was to indicate that the "zero rights" statement is incorrect. If that statement is retracted, we can move on with the discussion.

Zoins · February 9, 2018 9:48AM

It's okay to disagree but the Supreme Court has the final say.

Boosibri · February 9, 2018 11:41AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Yes I have had people steal my photos and then sell similar items using my professional photography and flooding the market with my image.

I used the law and brought that to a stop.

You can use other peoples photos for your own use, but you can not profit from them, like reselling a coin, without the photographers permission.

Which is basically what I meant in my first post which you disagreed with. Perhaps my being more clear on "use" vs. "personal use" would help but I think most people here are sharing the same viewpoints.

crazyhounddog · February 9, 2018 11:53AM

I for one have a problem with using other persons work without permission. But since this is a topic, what are the damages here? If sued for such a crime what are the monetary damages? Anyone?

asheland · February 9, 2018 12:22PM

This thread is a disagree minefield!

I think saving the pic for personal use and records is ok, but I wouldn't use it commercially.

davewesen · February 9, 2018 12:30PM

photobucket keeps changing their 'plans' ... I won't be going for the $100/yr version

so there will be ore old threads with pictures gone - I guess I might have to start uploading to PCGS forum

IF.... you're lazy and use website or seller photos...for YOUR use...

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