Hi NorthCoin
I have been watching your posting for a couple years. I agree you have a nice coin. I have not research all the postings that you have made, but just curious if you tried to get our host to certify as proof. In the TPG world we have today, that would be the litmus test. Many years ago, I use to buy SEGS Goodacre Presentation Pieces, cross them over to PCGS and make a nice profit. You get this bad boy in a right holder, then you can talk real smack.
@Currin said:
Hi NorthCoin
I have been watching your posting for a couple years. I agree you have a nice coin. I have not research all the postings that you have made, but just curious if you tried to get our host to certify as proof. In the TPG world we have today, that would be the litmus test. Many years ago, I use to buy SEGS Goodacre Presentation Pieces, cross them over to PCGS and make a nice profit. You get this bad boy in a right holder, then you can talk real smack.
Thanks for the comment. What is suggested may be merited if I was looking to maximize profit In a sale, but that is not my present focus. In fact the only time any of my coins have been switched into PCGS holders was when the auction company I have consigned them to for sale chose to do so.
My reasons for leaving the coin in the holder I acquired it in are set forth in my response to a similar question posed on a thread I originated as linked below. The response is in my second post on the below linked thread.
Thanks for the continued interest after all these years. It is hard to realize that it is coming up on twenty years now since I first acquired my unique 1850 Double Eagle as reflected from a post on the linked thread. Incidentally, that post, as quoted below, does set forth how others who have had the coin in hand have viewed its surfaces:
"It was first sold in Longacre's 1870 estate auction where it was referenced as a "proof." Max Mehl in a subsequent 1949 auction described the coin stating, "I classify it as a brilliant semi-proof, almost equal to a brilliant proof." Its most recent auction appearance was at the 2001 Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale with the auction description stating, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike ..." I acquired it shortly thereafter."
Thanks for the comment. What is suggested may be merited if I was looking to maximize profit In a sale, but that is not my present focus. In fact the only time any of my coins have been switched into PCGS holders was when the auction company I have consigned them to for sale chose to do so.
My reasons for leaving the coin in the holder I acquired it in are set forth in my response to a similar question posed on a thread I originated as linked below. The response is in my second post on the below linked thread.
Your stated reasons (copied at the bottom of this post) don’t make sense to me. If you were able to cross the coin, you’d still have the old holder, label and provenance for the coin. And obviously, it would command much more respect in a PCGS holder.
I don’t even understand the content of the SEGS grading label. How can a coin simultaneously be “Presentation”, “PL“ and “PR” (Proof)?
“Because of its recognition therein in the original Coin Facts where it was identified as the first "Significant Example" of the 1850 double eagle, as well as its description in its most recent 2001 auction appearance.“
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@1northcoin said:
Thanks for the continued interest after all these years. It is hard to realize that it is coming up on twenty years now since I first acquired my unique 1850 Double Eagle as reflected from a post on the linked thread. Incidentally, that post, as quoted below, does set forth how others who have had the coin in hand have viewed its surfaces:
"It was first sold in Longacre's 1870 estate auction where it was referenced as a "proof." Max Mehl in a subsequent 1949 auction described the coin stating, "I classify it as a brilliant semi-proof, almost equal to a brilliant proof." Its most recent auction appearance was at the 2001 Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale with the auction description stating, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike ..." I acquired it shortly thereafter."
FWIW the CoinFacts.com on its original site added from the auction description, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike and you can see clearly with magnification that the dies and planchet were enhanced prior to striking..."
@1northcoin said:
Thanks for the continued interest after all these years. It is hard to realize that it is coming up on twenty years now since I first acquired my unique 1850 Double Eagle as reflected from a post on the linked thread. Incidentally, that post, as quoted below, does set forth how others who have had the coin in hand have viewed its surfaces:
"It was first sold in Longacre's 1870 estate auction where it was referenced as a "proof." Max Mehl in a subsequent 1949 auction described the coin stating, "I classify it as a brilliant semi-proof, almost equal to a brilliant proof." Its most recent auction appearance was at the 2001 Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale with the auction description stating, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike ..." I acquired it shortly thereafter."
FWIW the CoinFacts.com on its original site added, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike and you can see clearly with magnification that the dies and planchet were enhanced prior to striking..."
Be aware that what was listed on the old CoinFacts.com site was just a quote from the May 2001 Superior auction catalog and not an opinion by anyone that posted the info on that site.
.
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Listing of the1850 $20 in the May 2001 Superior auction catalog:
@WinLoseWin. Thanks for posting those links confirming that the original CoinFacts site can still be accessed. Also appreciated getting to see the actual page from the auction catalog describing my coin.
It was only after acquiring the unique 1850 Double Eagle that I later learned of its having been in the subject auction and of its attribution in CoinFacts.
Of course in the past decade, as recounted in previous pages on this thread, I have continued to learn even more about its interesting history as well as to find out about the 1850 Double Eagle in the Paris museum that has been identified as a proof as previously discussed.
@Baley Typically, when a coin graded by SEGS has an asterisk (*) to the right of the grade, it is a problem/details coin. This is true of cleaned, polished, bent, damaged, etc, coins in SEGS holders. Straight-graded coins do not have an asterisk.
However, in the Superior auction catalog description (@WinLoseWin thanks for linking to the online catalog), the “Enhanced Surfaces” are described as being “enhanced prior to striking.” We would need high resolution images to attempt a determination of whether this was a pre or post-strike “enhancement.” Obviously PCGS could make this determination if the coin were submitted.
I looked through the sale catalog of the Dr Charles W. Green sale by Max Mehl in 1949, unfortunately there was no image for this coin included. Mehl did offer high praise for the coin, stating it is “The most beautiful specimen for this date…I have ever seen.”
@1northcoin I hope it turns out to be a specimen strike, but at least you have a double eagle pedigreed to the CW Green collection, the first complete set of double eagles ever to be sold.
It would be interesting to see what PCGS would say.
Just because it may trace to Longacre's estate doesn't mean it is a proof. It could just be an early strike or maybe it was struck as something special.
Then there is the 1850 Proof Gold Dollar. If there is still one in the museum as CoinFacts notes, it would be the only denomination with more than one example known meaning the others possibly might have had more than one struck also.
So far as I see listed there is one known $2.50 (not in the museum - it has been auctioned at least a couple of times since the 1980's and is now PCGS Proof-64 CAM - could it be the former Bibliotheque Nationale coin or a separate one?)
The $5 and $10 are missing from the museum collection and not known elsewhere yet. Then there is at least the one $20 in the museum along with yours being a ???.
The only PCGS graded 1850 Proof gold dollar now graded as Proof-60 had been previously sold raw at a 1995 Heritage auction as a cleaned MS-63 for $7,480, though it stated "In our opinion this coin is a proof..." though no service would call it such at the time. So maybe your $20 could have some hope.
After it was certified as Proof by PCGS, it auctioned at $129,250 in 2013.
Some of this is noted in the CoinFacts Census. Some is in the catalog descriptions also linked below. Very interesting to read the stories in the two Heritage auction descriptions.
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PCGS CoinFacts for the 1850 Proof Gold Dollar:
Comments
Hi NorthCoin
I have been watching your posting for a couple years. I agree you have a nice coin. I have not research all the postings that you have made, but just curious if you tried to get our host to certify as proof. In the TPG world we have today, that would be the litmus test. Many years ago, I use to buy SEGS Goodacre Presentation Pieces, cross them over to PCGS and make a nice profit. You get this bad boy in a right holder, then you can talk real smack.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Exactly
Latin American Collection
@ Currin
Thanks for the comment. What is suggested may be merited if I was looking to maximize profit In a sale, but that is not my present focus. In fact the only time any of my coins have been switched into PCGS holders was when the auction company I have consigned them to for sale chose to do so.
My reasons for leaving the coin in the holder I acquired it in are set forth in my response to a similar question posed on a thread I originated as linked below. The response is in my second post on the below linked thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12633412#Comment_12633412
If your Present Focus showed the coin's surfaces more clearly, then there would be more discussion.
However, perhaps not all of it would be favorable to the claim.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Thanks for the continued interest after all these years. It is hard to realize that it is coming up on twenty years now since I first acquired my unique 1850 Double Eagle as reflected from a post on the linked thread. Incidentally, that post, as quoted below, does set forth how others who have had the coin in hand have viewed its surfaces:
"It was first sold in Longacre's 1870 estate auction where it was referenced as a "proof." Max Mehl in a subsequent 1949 auction described the coin stating, "I classify it as a brilliant semi-proof, almost equal to a brilliant proof." Its most recent auction appearance was at the 2001 Superior Galleries' "Pre-Long Beach Sale with the auction description stating, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike ..." I acquired it shortly thereafter."
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12633412#Comment_12633412
Your stated reasons (copied at the bottom of this post) don’t make sense to me. If you were able to cross the coin, you’d still have the old holder, label and provenance for the coin. And obviously, it would command much more respect in a PCGS holder.
I don’t even understand the content of the SEGS grading label. How can a coin simultaneously be “Presentation”, “PL“ and “PR” (Proof)?
“Because of its recognition therein in the original Coin Facts where it was identified as the first "Significant Example" of the 1850 double eagle, as well as its description in its most recent 2001 auction appearance.“
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Thanks. Having never attempted to cross a coin before that is helpful information.
Once again, why no skillful images?
Is "Enhanced Surfaces" code for "Polished"?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
FWIW the CoinFacts.com on its original site added from the auction description, "This coin has a beautiful bold strike with full stars and all other details sharp and clear. The fields are Prooflike and you can see clearly with magnification that the dies and planchet were enhanced prior to striking..."
Be aware that what was listed on the old CoinFacts.com site was just a quote from the May 2001 Superior auction catalog and not an opinion by anyone that posted the info on that site.
.
.
Listing of the1850 $20 in the May 2001 Superior auction catalog:
https://archive.org/details/prelongbeachcoin2001supe_i8l5/page/n9/mode/2up
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Reference to the 1850 $20 on the old CoinFacts.com site:
https://web.archive.org/web/20060415130031/coinfacts.com/double_eagles/liberty_no_motto_double_eagles/1850_double_eagle.htm
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@WinLoseWin. Thanks for posting those links confirming that the original CoinFacts site can still be accessed. Also appreciated getting to see the actual page from the auction catalog describing my coin.
It was only after acquiring the unique 1850 Double Eagle that I later learned of its having been in the subject auction and of its attribution in CoinFacts.
Of course in the past decade, as recounted in previous pages on this thread, I have continued to learn even more about its interesting history as well as to find out about the 1850 Double Eagle in the Paris museum that has been identified as a proof as previously discussed.
@Baley Typically, when a coin graded by SEGS has an asterisk (*) to the right of the grade, it is a problem/details coin. This is true of cleaned, polished, bent, damaged, etc, coins in SEGS holders. Straight-graded coins do not have an asterisk.
However, in the Superior auction catalog description (@WinLoseWin thanks for linking to the online catalog), the “Enhanced Surfaces” are described as being “enhanced prior to striking.” We would need high resolution images to attempt a determination of whether this was a pre or post-strike “enhancement.” Obviously PCGS could make this determination if the coin were submitted.
I looked through the sale catalog of the Dr Charles W. Green sale by Max Mehl in 1949, unfortunately there was no image for this coin included. Mehl did offer high praise for the coin, stating it is “The most beautiful specimen for this date…I have ever seen.”
@1northcoin I hope it turns out to be a specimen strike, but at least you have a double eagle pedigreed to the CW Green collection, the first complete set of double eagles ever to be sold.
We've all enjoyed reading lots and lots of words about the coin..
But have yet to see one good picture
Puzzling, especially after posting literally hundreds of excellent travel photos
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It would be interesting to see what PCGS would say.
Just because it may trace to Longacre's estate doesn't mean it is a proof. It could just be an early strike or maybe it was struck as something special.
Then there is the 1850 Proof Gold Dollar. If there is still one in the museum as CoinFacts notes, it would be the only denomination with more than one example known meaning the others possibly might have had more than one struck also.
So far as I see listed there is one known $2.50 (not in the museum - it has been auctioned at least a couple of times since the 1980's and is now PCGS Proof-64 CAM - could it be the former Bibliotheque Nationale coin or a separate one?)
The $5 and $10 are missing from the museum collection and not known elsewhere yet. Then there is at least the one $20 in the museum along with yours being a ???.
The only PCGS graded 1850 Proof gold dollar now graded as Proof-60 had been previously sold raw at a 1995 Heritage auction as a cleaned MS-63 for $7,480, though it stated "In our opinion this coin is a proof..." though no service would call it such at the time. So maybe your $20 could have some hope.
After it was certified as Proof by PCGS, it auctioned at $129,250 in 2013.
Some of this is noted in the CoinFacts Census. Some is in the catalog descriptions also linked below. Very interesting to read the stories in the two Heritage auction descriptions.
.
.
PCGS CoinFacts for the 1850 Proof Gold Dollar:
https://pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1850-g-1/7593
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Heritage 2013 auction:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-gold-dollars/1850-g-1-pr60-pcgs/a/1181-5780.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0
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Heritage 1995 auction:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/gold-dollars/1850-ms-63-cleaned-in-our-opinion-this-coin-is-a-proof-however-it-is-the-subject-of-some-controversy-within-the-numismatic-co/a/130-5301.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin