I have a simple philosophy about grading. Grading never has and never will be an exact science. Grading is simply an expert opinion.
Opinions (even from experts) will vary all the time and even between themselves. I can guarantee you that if you sent 100 cards of varying conditions to one grader, and then sent the same cards to the same grader again, there would be several variations of grades.
Let me give you one example of one card I sent in a few years ago. At the time, a 1955 Topps Johnny Podres in a 7 NM was selling for about $100. An 8 NM-MT was selling for about $1500. I sent mine in with the strong opinion that it was NM-MT. Here is the progression over several weeks......
First time - 7 NM
Second time - 7 NM
Third time - Evidence of trimming
Fourth time - 8 NM-MT.....sold for $1400!
@frankhardy Holy Smokes ..what a road they put you thru.....Evidence of trimming is wild ... that must of had you bouncing off the wall...and they still made you fee it up to them 4 times.... nutty stuff. Re subs are in their best financial interest. Talk about a conflict of interest....
@Odessafile said: @frankhardy Holy Smokes ..what a road they put you thru.....Evidence of trimming is wild ... that must of had you bouncing off the wall...and they still made you fee it up to them 4 times.... nutty stuff. Re subs are in their best financial interest. Talk about a conflict of interest.....yet they still found it in their heart to grade a clearly trimmed T-206 Wagner a NM-MT 8 .... its all about the Benjamin's
Notice that I didn't say which grading company.........
BGS was started in 1999 and BVG around 2001. PSA started around 1991/2 - I remember meeting Baker at the 1992 National where they had their 1st card on display - the PSA 8 Honus Wagner.
from what I remember, the Wagner was not the first card they graded
the number 1 was reserved for something special ... turned out to be the Honus card
BGS started in 1999 ?
Thought it was a little earlier
but remember it taking off well from the beginning
I meant as a COMPANY
a Brand that is well know and respected
What was THE price guide, that most people used, from most of the 80's onward ?
Now they are a $h!+ company that cant GRADE cards ?
nonsense
PSA, BGS & SGC are all fine companies
Anyone who insists on only ONE company
simply has more $ tied up with them
that is the bottom line
Anyone who tries to come up with reasoning as to why the same sheet printed years ago
is different somehow, because of when it was cut ... again, too deeply invested
example
I'll take a Paul Coffey rookie in a 9.5 for $400 vs. a PSA for $3,000
I'll pocket the rest, and you can have your registry, if you feel that strongly
I'll take the $2,400 and build my collection bigger
This thread seems a bit over the top and a pointless rant. Crackouts are no guarantee...if they were....then everyone would do it and there would be no risk.
wow that turned into a really interesting post. thanks for all the comments.
I just wanna make one thing clear... i didnt resubmit the card to try and get a pristine 10 card , i just did it as an experiment and had never done it before and i have numerous cards with 3 10 subgrades. i just did it as an experiment and look what happened....no one has answered my OG question of how does centering go down and surface go up, i can see maybe corners and edges just by removing it from the case but not centering and surface. especially centering... i may just haven to crack it open again and send it one more time...what does anyone thinkabout that...anyone for one more time?
Isn't the better experiment to crack a 10 and see where IT grades?
I recognize how easy this is to suggest since it isn't my card. I will also state it's a foolish thing to do since grading is part subjective and part objective.
But PT Barnum wasn't wrong, now, was he?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
@HighGradeLegends said:
I Have a feeling this is all bs, but whatever. Welcome to the forum
You may be right but I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt as a guy with a low post count, myself.
I am just getting my feet wet with grading myself. I've learned quite a bit, have only graded a handful of cards and needless to say it's been quite an education. A fun one with low risk for me and some nice surprises along the way. While most people vent about bad experiences, I have had nothing but good ones. And since I collect vintage with the intent to keep, I research my purchases pretty well and have some idea of where it should grade. But I like raw and submit. My very first crack crossed at grade which helped me feel GREAT about the hobby, especially since it was an SGC to a PSA. I think there will always be variation by grader (they're human) but I took that as a positive sign for the hobby.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
its not all bs....ill send you a pick of the original gold beckett label with 3 10's on it if you want....why would i bs... i have no reason to....
i was just asking a simple question is beckett reliable.....if its all subjective then at a 9.5, why not just hand out a 10....its obvously what they did with my jeter card....the grader said hey im gonna give this card 3 10's then im gonna crush it with a 9.0.......and smiled on the way home.....dont ya think?... i do if its subjective.....and im probably gonna send it in one more time just to see what happens.
anyways its not all BS i was just asking a question about grading procedures
thanks guys this was all an interesting read
ant
@petroneanthony said:
its not all bs....ill send you a pick of the original gold beckett label with 3 10's on it if you want....why would i bs... i have no reason to....
i was just asking a simple question is beckett reliable.....if its all subjective then at a 9.5, why not just hand out a 10....its obvously what they did with my jeter card....the grader said hey im gonna give this card 3 10's then im gonna crush it with a 9.0.......and smiled on the way home.....dont ya think?... i do if its subjective.....and im probably gonna send it in one more time just to see what happens.
anyways its not all BS i was just asking a question about grading procedures
thanks guys this was all an interesting read
ant
I think the bottom line answer is the difference between a 9.5 and a 10 is quite minimal in everything - excepting price, where the difference can be massive. In my humble opinion, if you think grading companies are trying to get one over but still like to collect you should buy what you like already holdered rather than submit your own cards. I also think if people have handled tens of thousands of cards, I'm willing to bet they know the difference (and spot flaws) better than me. I mean this as advice not as a troll trying to get your goat. It just seems to me that while more expensive initially, buying a 10 makes more sense than buying and resubbing 9s and 9.5s hoping to get one cheaper. But again, I'm not a flipper or dealer, just a guy who likes cards.
And I think PSA, SGC and Beckett are all reliable.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
BGS is a joke. Especially on vintage. 90% or more are trimmed... Any seasoned collector knows this. I do still own a few Beckett graded cards. One that sticks out in my mind is a Stamkos rookie I have that is graded a 9.5. On a good day it may have received a 9 from any other tpg. In my personal experience sgc is the most consistent, but they can really be irritating when grading with them. I cracked a psa 7 opc gretzky rc and sent to sgc and came back a 5. Don't gamble if you can't deal with the end result. OP, You cracked a 9.5 and came back a 9.5. I would be more than happy with that. Who the hell cracks a 9.5 though??
Nothing unusual happened to the original poster. Grading always involves some wiggle room, so do pay attention to the card and not only the grade, regardless of the grading company. I have seen PSA 10's and BGS 9.5s that I would not bid on because they can easily PSA 9 or BGS 9 on any other day.
I would be more concerned if a trimmed or counterfeit card got slabbed rather than a 1/2 point difference in regrades.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
Check out his feedback, shady stuff he's selling. It looks like the BCCG holders are fake, he states that the cards and labels are reprints.
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
Check out his feedback, shady stuff he's selling. It looks like the BCCG holders are fake, he states that the cards and labels are reprints.
I just sent an email to Beckett's contact page with a link to his cards so hopefully they deal with him.
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
BCCG did not slab the card - or any of the cards he has sold or is selling. They are counterfeit slabs, BCCG labels, and cards. Unfortunately there are scammers who are counterfeiting all grading company's holders now.
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
BCCG did not slab the card - or any of the cards he has sold or is selling. They are counterfeit slabs, BCCG labels, and cards. Unfortunately there are scammers who are counterfeiting all grading company's holders now.
yeah i got that much after Littleweed pointed it out. I let Beckett know so hopefully they do something about it.
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
Check out his feedback, shady stuff he's selling. It looks like the BCCG holders are fake, he states that the cards and labels are reprints.
I just sent an email to Beckett's contact page with a link to his cards so hopefully they deal with him.
BGS replied back saying they'll look into this. Hopefully between them & ebay they get this guy out of there before he keeps taking people's money..
One of the funne fun, especially > @mcolney1 said:
Any thought to possible damage, even slight, to the card in the crack out process? If a 10 is truly pristine any handling could easily drop the grade .05 to 1 point.
I have cracked and resubmitted about 200 or so cards over the past 4 years, and I can't recall ever having a card return with a lower grade. It's important to be selective when identifying a good candidate to crack open. Usually, I strive to crack strong Mint 9's with weak surface grades (9 or lower). However, before I do so, I review the card under light with a loupe to determine whether the surface received a 9 due to a scratch, refractor line(s), or a print defect. There have been several times when I cracked a card only to notice something obvious on the surface that I could not see while the card was slabbed; print dots on refractors are probably the most common defect I have encountered.
Cracking cards out of slabs is fairly simple once you do it a few times. You will need 2 tools; 1 to cut the top corner of the slab and another to pry it open. Here is exactly what you will need:
Steps to remove the card:
1) Cut the top corner of the slab, taking a good chunk out to expose the opening where the grading plate resides.
2) Slide the tip of the flat head into the opening, then turn the screwdriver so that the tip forces the slab to open
NOTE: Do not attempt to pry it fully open yet, else you will risk only partially snapping open the front of the case. The objective at this point is to loosen the slab up along the top to allow the screwdriver to slide horizontally from the point of insertion to the other side.
3) Once the screwdriver is fully inserted, turn it to begin prying. Both sides of the slab should start to open. At this point just take your time and pry at different angles until the slab is open so that you can remove the card.
To clean the card:
Before you remove the card from the sealed plastic sleeve, ensure you have a work area prepared so you can transfer the card immediately upon removal from the sleeve. Lay a clean, thin, microfiber cloth down on a hard surface. Once the card is removed, cut the sides of the sealed plastic sleeve to access the raw card, then lay it on the microfiber cloth. Take a microfiber suede cloth, and use it to wipe off the surface to remove any debris. Examine the card under light from all angles using a loupe, take note of any scratches, then grab some 3M scratch remover. Wrap a microfiber glass wipe cloth around your index and middle fingers, then squeeze the 3M scratch remover onto the cloth. In a circular motion, work the 3M onto the surface of the card. For tough scratches, rub them out along the grain, then against the grain. Finally, take some polish and use a clean cloth to buff the surface, making sure to wipe any excess compound that accumulated along the edges of the card.
I might just make a video and post it to YouTube. If/When I do, I'll upload it here to provide a visual.
@petroneanthony said:
**PURCHASED A BGS 9.5, WITH 3- 10'S AND 1-9.0, CRACKED IT OPEN AND RESENT TO BECKETT TO SEE WHAT I WOULD GET ON A REGRADE AGAIN.****
last week i purchased a 1993 Topps Derek Jeter Rookie graded BGS 9.5 with 3 sub-grades of 10's and one sub at a 9.0 which meant it received a 9.5 by a .5 on the surface grade WHICH RECEIVED A 9.0, so here’s what i did....i cracked it open and resent the card to see if possibly another grader would maybe give me a 10 on or 9.5 on the surface grade....well here’s what i got back !!!! centering 9.5 surface 9.5 edges 9.5 and corners 9.0 ..... not even 1 grade 10....so tell me ...how was this card first graded with 3 10's and now none and how did the surface grade go up???????? And more importantly, how could the CENTERING GRADE GO DOWN!!!!!!
now i have a basically run of the mill 9.5 with no 10's where as before i had at least a 500 dollar card with 3 10's....i am outraged at Beckett and want to know what kind of scam they are pulling with gem mint and pristine 10 cards. i was carful when cracking open and never once touched the card in the plastic, after opening I carefully cut the edge of the penny protector so they could remove the card once
received. never once did i touch the card itself with my fingers.
i am outraged at Beckett and want to know what is going on here and want to know...what are we paying for.
centering should be consistent at least, not as much subjectivity as the others. I prefer PSA, so I have tried what you did.
@erikthredd said:
speaking of centering,i just came across this 4SC listing on ebay for an PSA 9 1988 Fleer Sticker of Jordan,i'm surprised the T/B tilt got this a 9.
Nice looking card of a tough set to get in PSA 9 or better condition.
I don't care for BGS.
As a Mahomes card collector, I would much rather have his cards in a PSA slab. They look much better.
BGS slabs are too bulky and cumbersome.
Unfortunately, many people send modern cards to BGS, and to buy some cards I want I have to buy them
in BGS slabs. Will be cracking out many of them to send to PSA sometime this year, I know I won't crack
my 3 contenders auto cards because of excellent subgrades however.
So the start of this was the OP "testing" BGS/BVG and it came back with lower grades, hence the post and the question.
My question is if the card came back a Pristine 10, would this post even exist?. The only reason we got the post was because it was lower.
@erikthredd said:
speaking of centering,i just came across this 4SC listing on ebay for an PSA 9 1988 Fleer Sticker of Jordan,i'm surprised the T/B tilt got this a 9.
Nice looking card of a tough set to get in PSA 9 or better condition.
It really is,I've upgraded my PSA 9 four times before finding one that had the centering I was looking for and I honestly very rarely upgrade anything. This sticker has always been one of my favorite MJ's.
Any thought to possible damage, even slight, to the card in the crack out process? If a 10 is truly pristine any handling could easily drop the grade .05 to 1 point.
I have cracked and resubmitted about 200 or so cards over the past 4 years, and I can't recall ever having a card return with a lower grade. It's important to be selective when identifying a good candidate to crack open. Usually, I strive to crack strong Mint 9's with weak surface grades (9 or lower). However, before I do so, I review the card under light with a loupe to determine whether the surface received a 9 due to a scratch, refractor line(s), or a print defect. There have been several times when I cracked a card only to notice something obvious on the surface that I could not see while the card was slabbed; print dots on refractors are probably the most common defect I have encountered.
Cracking cards out of slabs is fairly simple once you do it a few times. You will need 2 tools; 1 to cut the top corner of the slab and another to pry it open. Here is exactly what you will need:
Steps to remove the card:
1) Cut the top corner of the slab, taking a good chunk out to expose the opening where the grading plate resides.
2) Slide the tip of the flat head into the opening, then turn the screwdriver so that the tip forces the slab to open
NOTE: Do not attempt to pry it fully open yet, else you will risk only partially snapping open the front of the case. The objective at this point is to loosen the slab up along the top to allow the screwdriver to slide horizontally from the point of insertion to the other side.
3) Once the screwdriver is fully inserted, turn it to begin prying. Both sides of the slab should start to open. At this point just take your time and pry at different angles until the slab is open so that you can remove the card.
To clean the card:
Before you remove the card from the sealed plastic sleeve, ensure you have a work area prepared so you can transfer the card immediately upon removal from the sleeve. Lay a clean, thin, microfiber cloth down on a hard surface. Once the card is removed, cut the sides of the sealed plastic sleeve to access the raw card, then lay it on the microfiber cloth. Take a microfiber suede cloth, and use it to wipe off the surface to remove any debris. Examine the card under light from all angles using a loupe, take note of any scratches, then grab some 3M scratch remover. Wrap a microfiber glass wipe cloth around your index and middle fingers, then squeeze the 3M scratch remover onto the cloth. In a circular motion, work the 3M onto the surface of the card. For tough scratches, rub them out along the grain, then against the grain. Finally, take some polish and use a clean cloth to buff the surface, making sure to wipe any excess compound that accumulated along the edges of the card.
I might just make a video and post it to YouTube. If/When I do, I'll upload it here to provide a visual.
There is a tilt in this card? Or is it that Jordan is tilting
@erikthredd said:
speaking of centering,i just came across this 4SC listing on ebay for an PSA 9 1988 Fleer Sticker of Jordan,i'm surprised the T/B tilt got this a 9.
@akuracy503 said:
There is a tilt in this card? Or is it that Jordan is tilting
@erikthredd said:
speaking of centering,i just came across this 4SC listing on ebay for an PSA 9 1988 Fleer Sticker of Jordan,i'm surprised the T/B tilt got this a 9.
I've already explained what I meant about that comment,its on page 1.
Any thought to possible damage, even slight, to the card in the crack out process? If a 10 is truly pristine any handling could easily drop the grade .05 to 1 point.
I have cracked and resubmitted about 200 or so cards over the past 4 years, and I can't recall ever having a card return with a lower grade. It's important to be selective when identifying a good candidate to crack open. Usually, I strive to crack strong Mint 9's with weak surface grades (9 or lower). However, before I do so, I review the card under light with a loupe to determine whether the surface received a 9 due to a scratch, refractor line(s), or a print defect. There have been several times when I cracked a card only to notice something obvious on the surface that I could not see while the card was slabbed; print dots on refractors are probably the most common defect I have encountered.
Cracking cards out of slabs is fairly simple once you do it a few times. You will need 2 tools; 1 to cut the top corner of the slab and another to pry it open. Here is exactly what you will need:
Steps to remove the card:
1) Cut the top corner of the slab, taking a good chunk out to expose the opening where the grading plate resides.
2) Slide the tip of the flat head into the opening, then turn the screwdriver so that the tip forces the slab to open
NOTE: Do not attempt to pry it fully open yet, else you will risk only partially snapping open the front of the case. The objective at this point is to loosen the slab up along the top to allow the screwdriver to slide horizontally from the point of insertion to the other side.
3) Once the screwdriver is fully inserted, turn it to begin prying. Both sides of the slab should start to open. At this point just take your time and pry at different angles until the slab is open so that you can remove the card.
To clean the card:
Before you remove the card from the sealed plastic sleeve, ensure you have a work area prepared so you can transfer the card immediately upon removal from the sleeve. Lay a clean, thin, microfiber cloth down on a hard surface. Once the card is removed, cut the sides of the sealed plastic sleeve to access the raw card, then lay it on the microfiber cloth. Take a microfiber suede cloth, and use it to wipe off the surface to remove any debris. Examine the card under light from all angles using a loupe, take note of any scratches, then grab some 3M scratch remover. Wrap a microfiber glass wipe cloth around your index and middle fingers, then squeeze the 3M scratch remover onto the cloth. In a circular motion, work the 3M onto the surface of the card. For tough scratches, rub them out along the grain, then against the grain. Finally, take some polish and use a clean cloth to buff the surface, making sure to wipe any excess compound that accumulated along the edges of the card.
I might just make a video and post it to YouTube. If/When I do, I'll upload it here to provide a visual.
Cheers,
Ricky
With the threads on numerous forums about card alterations, I am frankly shocked someone would come on and not only advocate alterations but outline the process. What Ricky is describing here is altering cards. He is not describing cleaning off fingerprints, but actually buffing down the original surface gloss to remove damage. This is not accepted industry practice, though many do it. No one knows what the results will be in 10/20/30 years from introducing chemicals to the card/gloss or the actual removal of gloss.
Shame on you and anyone who condones this practice
Oh I have no problem with anyone having a preference. I'm a founding member of the Collect However You Want To Collect Secret Brotherhood of Creepy Mask-Wearing Candlelit Get-togethers. I was just talking about the people that literally get into message board fights about which TPG is better/worse and stuff like that.
Arthur
Art - How much is the member fee to join?
I have a 1956 Topps Mantle PSA 4 that I think could bump up in a crack and wish (I don't buy the review service scam). The brass ones I need are still in the incubator.
I like BGS as well. They tend to be very consistent and easy to deal with. I've never had a problem. I like there cases better as the card does not seem to move around as much as the PSA holder cards. I like PSA too and use them as well. Both are solid.
For vintage it is PSA hands down, but the new SGC holders are starting to grow on me. For things like Bowman Chrome rookies post 2007 it is BGS mainly because they bring higher prices with good subgrades. Would not touch them for vintage for anything.
@KendallCat said:
the new SGC holders are starting to grow on me.
You know, I was dead against those new SGC labels, but they're growing on me, too. The two BVG holders I have for two Yaz '67 Topps are eyesores in my collection. I can't stand them. I'll be looking to cross them over in the near future.
I stopped buying SGC cards a while ago due to their terrible holders. I had several actually fall apart due to a poor quality seal. When I gambled more playing the crack and resub game, SGC holders were so easy to crack cleanly without having to drill.
Comments
I have a simple philosophy about grading. Grading never has and never will be an exact science. Grading is simply an expert opinion.
Opinions (even from experts) will vary all the time and even between themselves. I can guarantee you that if you sent 100 cards of varying conditions to one grader, and then sent the same cards to the same grader again, there would be several variations of grades.
Let me give you one example of one card I sent in a few years ago. At the time, a 1955 Topps Johnny Podres in a 7 NM was selling for about $100. An 8 NM-MT was selling for about $1500. I sent mine in with the strong opinion that it was NM-MT. Here is the progression over several weeks......
First time - 7 NM
Second time - 7 NM
Third time - Evidence of trimming
Fourth time - 8 NM-MT.....sold for $1400!
Shane
@frankhardy Holy Smokes ..what a road they put you thru.....Evidence of trimming is wild ... that must of had you bouncing off the wall...and they still made you fee it up to them 4 times.... nutty stuff. Re subs are in their best financial interest. Talk about a conflict of interest....
Notice that I didn't say which grading company.........
Shane
from what I remember, the Wagner was not the first card they graded
the number 1 was reserved for something special ... turned out to be the Honus card
BGS started in 1999 ?
Thought it was a little earlier
but remember it taking off well from the beginning
I meant as a COMPANY
a Brand that is well know and respected
What was THE price guide, that most people used, from most of the 80's onward ?
Now they are a $h!+ company that cant GRADE cards ?
nonsense
PSA, BGS & SGC are all fine companies
Anyone who insists on only ONE company
simply has more $ tied up with them
that is the bottom line
Anyone who tries to come up with reasoning as to why the same sheet printed years ago
is different somehow, because of when it was cut ... again, too deeply invested
example
I'll take a Paul Coffey rookie in a 9.5 for $400 vs. a PSA for $3,000
I'll pocket the rest, and you can have your registry, if you feel that strongly
I'll take the $2,400 and build my collection bigger
IMO this is a bit over the top - an over generalization perhaps.
I was just wondering.
Did you take this over to their forum(s) - isn't this kind of like going over the Coke and complaining about Pepsi?
This thread seems a bit over the top and a pointless rant. Crackouts are no guarantee...if they were....then everyone would do it and there would be no risk.
I haven't trashed PSA
I collect some PSA cards
I came in questioning a 3 post guy, bashing BGS
I really don't use any other forums
I'm not much of a poster on the net
I've been off and on this one since back in 2000-01,
when it would take weeks to get to a 2nd page of posts
I'm into sheet cut cards now, so hence user name
couldn't think of anything else
My apology.
You were asking a question of the OP and I misquoted the wrong person (i.e. you)
My question about complaining with coke/pepsi was for the OP.
no worries :-)
thanks
wow that turned into a really interesting post. thanks for all the comments.
I just wanna make one thing clear... i didnt resubmit the card to try and get a pristine 10 card , i just did it as an experiment and had never done it before and i have numerous cards with 3 10 subgrades. i just did it as an experiment and look what happened....no one has answered my OG question of how does centering go down and surface go up, i can see maybe corners and edges just by removing it from the case but not centering and surface. especially centering... i may just haven to crack it open again and send it one more time...what does anyone thinkabout that...anyone for one more time?
thanks everyone for the comments i learned alot.
Your question was answered. You can't consistently tell the difference between a 9.5 and a 10.
Crack it out and send it in again and report back how it grades.
Isn't the better experiment to crack a 10 and see where IT grades?
I recognize how easy this is to suggest since it isn't my card. I will also state it's a foolish thing to do since grading is part subjective and part objective.
But PT Barnum wasn't wrong, now, was he?
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
I Have a feeling this is all bs, but whatever. Welcome to the forum
You may be right but I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt as a guy with a low post count, myself.
I am just getting my feet wet with grading myself. I've learned quite a bit, have only graded a handful of cards and needless to say it's been quite an education. A fun one with low risk for me and some nice surprises along the way. While most people vent about bad experiences, I have had nothing but good ones. And since I collect vintage with the intent to keep, I research my purchases pretty well and have some idea of where it should grade. But I like raw and submit. My very first crack crossed at grade which helped me feel GREAT about the hobby, especially since it was an SGC to a PSA. I think there will always be variation by grader (they're human) but I took that as a positive sign for the hobby.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
its not all bs....ill send you a pick of the original gold beckett label with 3 10's on it if you want....why would i bs... i have no reason to....
i was just asking a simple question is beckett reliable.....if its all subjective then at a 9.5, why not just hand out a 10....its obvously what they did with my jeter card....the grader said hey im gonna give this card 3 10's then im gonna crush it with a 9.0.......and smiled on the way home.....dont ya think?... i do if its subjective.....and im probably gonna send it in one more time just to see what happens.
anyways its not all BS i was just asking a question about grading procedures
thanks guys this was all an interesting read
ant
I think the bottom line answer is the difference between a 9.5 and a 10 is quite minimal in everything - excepting price, where the difference can be massive. In my humble opinion, if you think grading companies are trying to get one over but still like to collect you should buy what you like already holdered rather than submit your own cards. I also think if people have handled tens of thousands of cards, I'm willing to bet they know the difference (and spot flaws) better than me. I mean this as advice not as a troll trying to get your goat. It just seems to me that while more expensive initially, buying a 10 makes more sense than buying and resubbing 9s and 9.5s hoping to get one cheaper. But again, I'm not a flipper or dealer, just a guy who likes cards.
And I think PSA, SGC and Beckett are all reliable.
Curious about the rare, mysterious and beautiful 1951 Wheaties Premium Photos?
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
BGS is a joke. Especially on vintage. 90% or more are trimmed... Any seasoned collector knows this. I do still own a few Beckett graded cards. One that sticks out in my mind is a Stamkos rookie I have that is graded a 9.5. On a good day it may have received a 9 from any other tpg. In my personal experience sgc is the most consistent, but they can really be irritating when grading with them. I cracked a psa 7 opc gretzky rc and sent to sgc and came back a 5. Don't gamble if you can't deal with the end result. OP, You cracked a 9.5 and came back a 9.5. I would be more than happy with that. Who the hell cracks a 9.5 though??
This is definitely a head-scratcher,BGS gave a grade on a facsimile signature on this Jordan Collectors Choice gold signature parallel.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-95-UD-CC-Michael-Jordan-Gold-Signature-Parallel-Rookie-BGS-9-w-10-Auto/323073185611?hash=item4b38a9974b:g:eBMAAOSwZ11abiFL
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Wow, mech errors are one thing, but this example you posted here is a completely unacceptable mistake from a TPG.
Nothing unusual happened to the original poster. Grading always involves some wiggle room, so do pay attention to the card and not only the grade, regardless of the grading company. I have seen PSA 10's and BGS 9.5s that I would not bid on because they can easily PSA 9 or BGS 9 on any other day.
I would be more concerned if a trimmed or counterfeit card got slabbed rather than a 1/2 point difference in regrades.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
This
Here's another head-scratcher from BGS. Luckily this seller was honest about what he was selling but who knows if the next seller does the same. This slab has SCAM written all over it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-85-star-Michael-Jordan-101-READ-LISTING-bulls-rookie-mint-10-RP-/292477856940?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&nma=true&si=mGE%2FgvLiIYeex%2F3KPVjdub1dsuw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I noticed another card he had listed before I saw this post. He has an Orr RC reprint with the same disclaimer. Looks like every card he has is a reprint.
https://www.m.ebay.com/itm/1966-topps-Bobby-Orr-35-READ-LISTING-bruins-rookie-ex-8-RP-/292477865331?nav=SEARCH
Kevin
Kevin
I didn't look at his other auctions. BCCG shouldn't have slabbed that card,now whoever owns it can try pawning it off as a real Star rookie,same with the Orr. They didn't even add the word "reprint" to the flip.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
Check out his feedback, shady stuff he's selling. It looks like the BCCG holders are fake, he states that the cards and labels are reprints.
I just sent an email to Beckett's contact page with a link to his cards so hopefully they deal with him.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
BCCG did not slab the card - or any of the cards he has sold or is selling. They are counterfeit slabs, BCCG labels, and cards. Unfortunately there are scammers who are counterfeiting all grading company's holders now.
yeah i got that much after Littleweed pointed it out. I let Beckett know so hopefully they do something about it.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
BGS replied back saying they'll look into this. Hopefully between them & ebay they get this guy out of there before he keeps taking people's money..
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
One of the funne fun, especially > @mcolney1 said:
I have cracked and resubmitted about 200 or so cards over the past 4 years, and I can't recall ever having a card return with a lower grade. It's important to be selective when identifying a good candidate to crack open. Usually, I strive to crack strong Mint 9's with weak surface grades (9 or lower). However, before I do so, I review the card under light with a loupe to determine whether the surface received a 9 due to a scratch, refractor line(s), or a print defect. There have been several times when I cracked a card only to notice something obvious on the surface that I could not see while the card was slabbed; print dots on refractors are probably the most common defect I have encountered.
Cracking cards out of slabs is fairly simple once you do it a few times. You will need 2 tools; 1 to cut the top corner of the slab and another to pry it open. Here is exactly what you will need:
1) Heavy Duty Diagonal-Cutting Pliers (link below)
https://ammcindustries.com/products/klein-tools-j2000-28-br-8-journeyman-high-leverage-diagonal-cutting-pliers-br-heavy-duty-cutting
2) A decent flat head screwdriver with a wide tip
Steps to remove the card:
1) Cut the top corner of the slab, taking a good chunk out to expose the opening where the grading plate resides.
2) Slide the tip of the flat head into the opening, then turn the screwdriver so that the tip forces the slab to open
NOTE: Do not attempt to pry it fully open yet, else you will risk only partially snapping open the front of the case. The objective at this point is to loosen the slab up along the top to allow the screwdriver to slide horizontally from the point of insertion to the other side.
3) Once the screwdriver is fully inserted, turn it to begin prying. Both sides of the slab should start to open. At this point just take your time and pry at different angles until the slab is open so that you can remove the card.
To clean the card:
Before you remove the card from the sealed plastic sleeve, ensure you have a work area prepared so you can transfer the card immediately upon removal from the sleeve. Lay a clean, thin, microfiber cloth down on a hard surface. Once the card is removed, cut the sides of the sealed plastic sleeve to access the raw card, then lay it on the microfiber cloth. Take a microfiber suede cloth, and use it to wipe off the surface to remove any debris. Examine the card under light from all angles using a loupe, take note of any scratches, then grab some 3M scratch remover. Wrap a microfiber glass wipe cloth around your index and middle fingers, then squeeze the 3M scratch remover onto the cloth. In a circular motion, work the 3M onto the surface of the card. For tough scratches, rub them out along the grain, then against the grain. Finally, take some polish and use a clean cloth to buff the surface, making sure to wipe any excess compound that accumulated along the edges of the card.
I might just make a video and post it to YouTube. If/When I do, I'll upload it here to provide a visual.
Cheers,
Ricky
Nice looking card of a tough set to get in PSA 9 or better condition.
I don't care for BGS.
As a Mahomes card collector, I would much rather have his cards in a PSA slab. They look much better.
BGS slabs are too bulky and cumbersome.
Unfortunately, many people send modern cards to BGS, and to buy some cards I want I have to buy them
in BGS slabs. Will be cracking out many of them to send to PSA sometime this year, I know I won't crack
my 3 contenders auto cards because of excellent subgrades however.
So the start of this was the OP "testing" BGS/BVG and it came back with lower grades, hence the post and the question.
My question is if the card came back a Pristine 10, would this post even exist?. The only reason we got the post was because it was lower.
It really is,I've upgraded my PSA 9 four times before finding one that had the centering I was looking for and I honestly very rarely upgrade anything. This sticker has always been one of my favorite MJ's.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
I like BGS. I like the sub grades.
I collect hall of fame rookie cards, https://www.instagram.com/stwainfan/
Welcome to the forum
There is a tilt in this card? Or is it that Jordan is tilting
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
Now that’s a respectable card!
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
I've already explained what I meant about that comment,its on page 1.
Eric
Erikthredd’s MJ Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/publishedset/395035
Erikthredd’s Nike Air Jordan Collection: https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/basketball/key-card-sets/nike-poster-cards-michael-jordan-1985-1992/alltimeset/408486
With the threads on numerous forums about card alterations, I am frankly shocked someone would come on and not only advocate alterations but outline the process. What Ricky is describing here is altering cards. He is not describing cleaning off fingerprints, but actually buffing down the original surface gloss to remove damage. This is not accepted industry practice, though many do it. No one knows what the results will be in 10/20/30 years from introducing chemicals to the card/gloss or the actual removal of gloss.
Shame on you and anyone who condones this practice
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Art - How much is the member fee to join?
I have a 1956 Topps Mantle PSA 4 that I think could bump up in a crack and wish (I don't buy the review service scam). The brass ones I need are still in the incubator.
I like BGS as well. They tend to be very consistent and easy to deal with. I've never had a problem. I like there cases better as the card does not seem to move around as much as the PSA holder cards. I like PSA too and use them as well. Both are solid.
KSA all the way! 😉
For vintage it is PSA hands down, but the new SGC holders are starting to grow on me. For things like Bowman Chrome rookies post 2007 it is BGS mainly because they bring higher prices with good subgrades. Would not touch them for vintage for anything.
KC
You know, I was dead against those new SGC labels, but they're growing on me, too. The two BVG holders I have for two Yaz '67 Topps are eyesores in my collection. I can't stand them. I'll be looking to cross them over in the near future.
Andy
I stopped buying SGC cards a while ago due to their terrible holders. I had several actually fall apart due to a poor quality seal. When I gambled more playing the crack and resub game, SGC holders were so easy to crack cleanly without having to drill.