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What's the $1 & $2 Service?

I was bored and was reading Collectors Universe's 2016 and 2017 annual stockholder reports. I wonder how many people have read them before? I was curious about their financials and was reading through the first few pages. The following statement has me scratching my head.

"In the case of trading cards, in fiscal 2017, the authentication and grading fees ranged from approximately $1 to $5,250
and averaged $8.35, per trading card."

That's from the 2017 report. http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/CLCT/5863172056x0x966724/DB2EB2DE-53A1-4FDE-B7F1-26986FCDA139/2017_Annual_Report_.pdf

This was from the 2016 report:

"In the case of trading cards, in fiscal 2016, the authentication and grading fees ranged from approximately $2 to $500 and
averaged $7.41, per trading card."

http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/CLCT/5863172056x0x914864/B9A4C309-4159-4AB9-A4BB-1D1CEBE51394/2016_Annual_Report.pdf

I looked at their service list for trading cards and I don't find a $1 or $2 service. Frankly, the average service fee is below all the grading fees stated. Can anyone explain what I am missing? What service do they offer for $1 to $2? How can the average fee be $7.41 to $8.35 per card when their stated fees are higher?

I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

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Comments

  • countdouglascountdouglas Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    4sharpcorners

  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    @countdouglas said:
    4sharpcorners

    This. Contracts with entities that guarantee a certain number of submissions, or revenue. I assume the $1 rate is for post-vintage commons that normally wouldn't have a declared value more than the holder itself... this promotes set building on the registry.

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are clients that submit thousands of cards per month.

    Arthur

  • Yeh, the more and more I learn, the more the sports card market looks like Scientology.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think there's anything wrong with it. If I were running PSA I would absolutely work out deals with my huge clients that benefited both parties. It's absurd to think that someone submitting 2,000 cards every month should pay the same as someone who might submit 30 a year.

    Arthur

  • frankhardyfrankhardy Posts: 8,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2018 11:27AM

    After that card they should be known as 3_sharp_corners

    Shane

  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭

    That corner looks rebuilt, no?

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,679 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @frankhardy said:
    After that card they should be known as 3_sharp_corners

    Looking at the lower left, perhaps two...

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,088 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2018 12:03PM

    That bottom right corner could be one of the "spacers" in this thread.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/992695/cards-holders-with-spacers#latest

    edit: It almost looks like the same with the top right & bottom left corners in this slab but these were placed behind the card where as the card above got placed in the front. I'm just guessing here.

  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭

    Maybe they should offer a piggyback service on their orders for say $4 to the public. (Though I'm sure the contract with PSA prevents that) But I'm sure if you "know" someone there you can submit to them.

    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
    saucywombat@hotmail.com
  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,679 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    That bottom right corner could be one of the "spacers" in this thread.
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/992695/cards-holders-with-spacers#latest

    edit: It almost looks like the same with the top right & bottom left corners in this slab but these were placed behind the card where as the card above got placed in the front. I'm just guessing here.

    I know what you mean with the little squares, but this looks more like some kind of staining.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could be,i was just taking a guess. I've seen those little squares mentioned on more than one forum and thought it might be what we saw.

  • Dand522612Dand522612 Posts: 417 ✭✭✭

    It’s a spacer... very common on this issue as we have seen. Candidly 4sharp gets a bad rap. So much volume and therefore so much potential for sliders ETC. we all have cards that are sliders. Am I saying all of there cards are high end? No, however speaking in absolutes is not fair.

  • GoDodgersFanGoDodgersFan Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭

    I buy from 4SC directly from their website and never had an issue.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,679 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2018 1:49PM

    Seems like the OP's question has been answered! :)

  • dictoresnodictoresno Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GoDodgersFan said:
    I buy from 4SC directly from their website and never had an issue.

    also a lot cheaper vs ebay. website has their discounts applied vs the crossposted ebay sale.

    myslabs.to/smzcards

  • ElvisPElvisP Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭

    @baz518 said:

    @countdouglas said:
    4sharpcorners

    This. Contracts with entities that guarantee a certain number of submissions, or revenue. I assume the $1 rate is for post-vintage commons that normally wouldn't have a declared value more than the holder itself... this promotes set building on the registry.

    Just goes to show you how over-priced the fees are. If they can make money grading cards for $1 and $2.

  • msassinmsassin Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭

    @ElvisP said:

    Just goes to show you how over-priced the fees are. If they can make money grading cards for $1 and $2.

    You do realize they don't holder many of the cards in the order at that price level?

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ElvisP said:

    @baz518 said:

    @countdouglas said:
    4sharpcorners

    This. Contracts with entities that guarantee a certain number of submissions, or revenue. I assume the $1 rate is for post-vintage commons that normally wouldn't have a declared value more than the holder itself... this promotes set building on the registry.

    Just goes to show you how over-priced the fees are. If they can make money grading cards for $1 and $2.

    They can do that for customers that guarantee X-thousand submissions every single month, month in, month out. They can't do that for everyone or the wait time would be a year and a half.

    Arthur

  • @ReggieCleveland said:

    @ElvisP said:

    @baz518 said:

    @countdouglas said:
    4sharpcorners

    This. Contracts with entities that guarantee a certain number of submissions, or revenue. I assume the $1 rate is for post-vintage commons that normally wouldn't have a declared value more than the holder itself... this promotes set building on the registry.

    Just goes to show you how over-priced the fees are. If they can make money grading cards for $1 and $2.

    They can do that for customers that guarantee X-thousand submissions every single month, month in, month out. They can't do that for everyone or the wait time would be a year and a half.

    Arthur

    Lets say I build fences for a living. Lets say I charge $1,500 for the typical fence and it costs me $1,000 in materials and labor to build it. If I charged you $500 because you were a home builder with 25 houses per year, I still lose $500 per fence. I could build you 1,000 fences a year, I still lose $500,000.

    If you read those financials I posted(funny, nobody appears interested), you will note they say that 5 customers constitute 18% of their total business and that most of their revenue comes from coin grading and authenticating rather than cards and autographs. They also report a very high amount of expenses, which is puzzling. Also, in 2017, the average "declared value" of the 1,457,900 trading cards they graded was $6.50, which must mean the declared value for most graded cards is close to zero - which is funny, because nobody in their right mind would have a card graded that they know is worth less than the fee.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:
    nobody in their right mind would have a card graded that they know is worth less than the fee.

    TRIAPD

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My guess is that the bulk submitters are insuring their submissions outside of USPS or FedEx so all of their submissions have declared values of $0. In fact, I imagine insuring submissions outside of the delivery service is more popular than one might imagine. If I'm sending a $10,000 card to PSA I'm sure as shite not insuring it through USPS.

    Arthur

  • secretstashsecretstash Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭✭

    I do wonder how long 4sharpcorners wait time is though. I assume because of how large a customer he is, the wait is a continuous flow daily of grades coming in. The real advantage for him is that he is able to get freshly graded *hot cards to market faster than most normal submitters unless they are overpaying for service level.

  • Not sure about that, but I doubt that is the explanation.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • MrHockeyMrHockey Posts: 555 ✭✭✭

    I always super-underdeclare values. I have my own insurance, it just adds to shipping costs, and the odds of both damage and successful recovery of value is low.

  • countdouglascountdouglas Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sometimes fixed expenses constitute a need for constant cash flow, even if it's a money losing proposition long term. The business model then anticipates that when business does pick up, the profit gained during that time will negate the overall losses. Business 101.

  • They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    PSA sells many services, at different service levels (based on card value). No different than Kroger selling turkeys at a loss in November, to get your business for all the other fixings. The gravy is that putting small value cards in holders also promotes the registry.

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:
    Not sure about that, but I doubt that is the explanation.

    You seem to be beating around the bush without coming out and saying something. There have been logical and probable explanations for everything put forward so far but that doesn't seem to be enough. Do you think something nefarious is going on?

    Arthur

  • BatpigBatpig Posts: 460 ✭✭✭

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

  • tonylagstonylags Posts: 568 ✭✭✭

    @Batpig said:

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

    How do I sign up? I would do this

    I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tonylags said:

    @Batpig said:

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

    How do I sign up? I would do this

    Contract with them for about 5K subs/month.

  • GoDodgersFanGoDodgersFan Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭

    Just one account - 4_sharp_corners with 36,804 items on ebay for sale. A lot of business with PSA.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018 6:53PM

    @tonylags said:

    @Batpig said:

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

    How do I sign up? I would do this

    You have 5,000+ cards a month to submit?

    As far as the fence analogy is concerned, PSA is not losing money charging 4SC the rates it does, so that analogy doesn't make sense. The profit margin is not as great as it is for submissions you or I send in, but that is more than made up for in volume. I am also sure a business like 4SC has their own private insurance and Fed Ex account, so the declared insurance figures are moot, too.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • baz518baz518 Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭✭

    Just curious, regardless of insurance cost... I can't send in a 52 Mantle with a declared value of $0, can I? Doesn't the service level dictate a minimum declared value? Granted, you could declare $0 on the lowest service levels.

  • @baz518 said:
    Just curious, regardless of insurance cost... I can't send in a 52 Mantle with a declared value of $0, can I? Doesn't the service level dictate a minimum declared value? Granted, you could declare $0 on the lowest service levels.

    Exactly. You have to declare a value and it can't be $1 on an Aaron Judge autograph. Its crazy that someone actually has to explain this when it is right there on the submission form.

    @grote15 said:

    @tonylags said:

    @Batpig said:

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

    How do I sign up? I would do this

    You have 5,000+ cards a month to submit?

    As far as the fence analogy is concerned, PSA is not losing money charging 4SC the rates it does, so that analogy doesn't make sense. The profit margin is not as great as it is for submissions you or I send in, but that is more than made up for in volume.

    In Fiscal Year 2017, Collectors Universe reported a total revenue of just over $70 million and expenses over $56 million. They graded 3,081,400 coins, 1,457,900 trading cards and 297,800 autographs for a total of 4,837,100. $56 million divided by 4,837,100 graded items equals $11.58 per item graded. They would have over $11.50 in overhead per item they grade.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2018 7:18AM

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:

    @baz518 said:
    Just curious, regardless of insurance cost... I can't send in a 52 Mantle with a declared value of $0, can I? Doesn't the service level dictate a minimum declared value? Granted, you could declare $0 on the lowest service levels.

    Exactly. You have to declare a value and it can't be $1 on an Aaron Judge autograph. Its crazy that someone actually has to explain this when it is right there on the submission form.

    @grote15 said:

    @tonylags said:

    @Batpig said:

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

    How do I sign up? I would do this

    You have 5,000+ cards a month to submit?

    As far as the fence analogy is concerned, PSA is not losing money charging 4SC the rates it does, so that analogy doesn't make sense. The profit margin is not as great as it is for submissions you or I send in, but that is more than made up for in volume.

    In Fiscal Year 2017, Collectors Universe reported a total revenue of just over $70 million and expenses over $56 million. They graded 3,081,400 coins, 1,457,900 trading cards and 297,800 autographs for a total of 4,837,100. $56 million divided by 4,837,100 graded items equals $11.58 per item graded. They would have over $11.50 in overhead per item they grade.

    You are misreading and overly simplifying these reports. You can't combine costs for grading coins and autograph authentication with cards. The costs for grading coins and auto authentication are much higher.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still don't understand what your point is, @Jimmy_Commonpants ?

    Arthur

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ReggieCleveland said:
    I still don't understand what your point is, @Jimmy_Commonpants ?

    Arthur

    Perhaps that the average card grading fee went up $0.94 while the lowest rate went down $1 and the top rate had a 10x+ increase? ;) Or maybe he's just angry and trying to stir the pot.

    I wonder if the huge bulk submitters get a monthly/quarterly/annual special that accounts for the $1-2. I thought it was rumored in the past that their typical rate was $3-4.

    Also, it's pretty easy to find submission fees below the average for anyone. $7/100 bulk works for anyone with a membership anytime as well as many monthly specials ($6.25 for pre-56 this month @ https://www.psacard.com/Specials).

  • @grote15 said:

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:

    @baz518 said:
    Just curious, regardless of insurance cost... I can't send in a 52 Mantle with a declared value of $0, can I? Doesn't the service level dictate a minimum declared value? Granted, you could declare $0 on the lowest service levels.

    Exactly. You have to declare a value and it can't be $1 on an Aaron Judge autograph. Its crazy that someone actually has to explain this when it is right there on the submission form.

    @grote15 said:

    @tonylags said:

    @Batpig said:

    @CARDSANDCOINS said:
    They pay $1 per card for psa to look at it and psa only slabs the cards that meet their minimum grade (like only slabs the cards that will grade a 10)

    This. They aren't actually slabbing them, and only charging a small fee for those that don't meet min grade.

    How do I sign up? I would do this

    You have 5,000+ cards a month to submit?

    As far as the fence analogy is concerned, PSA is not losing money charging 4SC the rates it does, so that analogy doesn't make sense. The profit margin is not as great as it is for submissions you or I send in, but that is more than made up for in volume.

    In Fiscal Year 2017, Collectors Universe reported a total revenue of just over $70 million and expenses over $56 million. They graded 3,081,400 coins, 1,457,900 trading cards and 297,800 autographs for a total of 4,837,100. $56 million divided by 4,837,100 graded items equals $11.58 per item graded. They would have over $11.50 in overhead per item they grade.

    You are misreading and overly simplifying these reports. You can't combine costs for grading coins and autograph authentication with cards. The costs for grading coins and auto authentication are much higher.

    While its just a gross average, there is no way that they attribute less than $1-$2 to the cost of grading a trading card when they report $56 million in expenses. Do the math. Cutting the grading fee for bulk submitters does not result in more revenue from "some other source" as CU states revenue is primarily generated through grading services. You can say I am overly simplifying it, but based upon their numbers, they have over $11.50 in expenses/overhead on average per item they grade.

    This isn't like Nike giving free apparel to athletes or Fender giving free guitars to musicians with the thought their fans will buy those products. The additional sales far outweigh the cost of the shoes or instrument because those are value added items and its time tested that people buy gear that is worn people they listen to or watch. Exposure is the key. PSA/CU doesn't have "additional revenue" that is generated by someone like 4SC getting a favorable deal. You are acting like that mere fact that PSA grades cards for 4SC causes other people to send in their cards. It doesn't, not at this point in the game. Maybe 15 years ago to some extent, when PSA wasn't the industry standard, but not now. And the numbers wouldn't add up either, because the discount is so steep and the number of cards graded for this fee is so high(hundreds of thousands per year).

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • @ReggieCleveland said:
    I still don't understand what your point is, @Jimmy_Commonpants ?

    Arthur

    If you are buying cards from someone like 4SC who doesn't have to pay the grading fee, you are not only paying his grading fee for him, but you are also paying him the "premium" afforded by having a card graded and slabbed by PSA - when you likely wouldn't have paid him anything for the un-graded card. You are ripping yourself off! He can't sell raw cards in numbers like that or for those prices and he couldn't even be in business if he had to pay tens of thousands of dollars(or more) a year for grading services. All you are doing is lining his pockets by paying "inflated" prices he couldn't get without having the cards slabbed by PSA - and he isn't even paying for that. You've been had.

    Isn't it more likely that people such as "4SC" are little more than companies owned, operated by or affiliated with the investors in CU? Its the first thing that crosses my mind when I see someone with tens of thousands of PSA graded cards for sale. Its a pretty logical conclusion.

    I don't call that "nefarious" as you asked above, but its just another reason why I say the sports collectables market is essentially "Scientology" at this point.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • tonylagstonylags Posts: 568 ✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2018 10:13AM

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:

    @ReggieCleveland said:
    I still don't understand what your point is, @Jimmy_Commonpants ?

    Arthur

    Isn't it more likely that people such as "4SC" are little more than companies owned, operated by or affiliated with the investors in CU? Its the first thing that crosses my mind when I see someone with tens of thousands of PSA graded cards for sale. Its a pretty logical conclusion.

    I don't agree; if money were no object or I had an investor {anyone??} I could send in 50,000+ cards inside of 6 months that are worthy or deserving of being graded. unfortunately, for me, money is an object.

    But, obviously they get some kind of break, they have thousands of cards listed for sale for less than the grading fee I or anyone else would pay.

    I have to much S**t; so if you working on sets or are a player/team collector, send me your want list, with conditions desired. Keep in mind I have a another job so please allow me a few days to respond.

  • ReggieClevelandReggieCleveland Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭

  • PROMETHIUS88PROMETHIUS88 Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This may have been covered somewhere else, a long time back, but where does 4SC come up with all the cards they submit on a monthly basis??? It's not like they only have common cards for sale. Consistently they have good stuff.

    Promethius881969@yahoo.com
  • Gemyanks10Gemyanks10 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭

    @PROMETHIUS88 said:
    This may have been covered somewhere else, a long time back, but where does 4SC come up with all the cards they submit on a monthly basis??? It's not like they only have common cards for sale. Consistently they have good stuff.

    I’ve been told BBCE, Fritsch, and they send workers out to various shows including the National before it’s open to the public to purchase high grade raw sets.

    Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
  • @PROMETHIUS88 said:
    This may have been covered somewhere else, a long time back, but where does 4SC come up with all the cards they submit on a monthly basis??? It's not like they only have common cards for sale. Consistently they have good stuff.

    Bulk submitters and auction houses scour the internet(craig's list, ebay, amazon, comc, etc.) for raw cards that look like they would grade 8 or above, buy bulk collections/closed stores, etc... You've seen those adds in Beckett and other publications advertising "we buy collections and store inventories"? These types buy/sell under so many different names, most people don't realize or understand who they are buying from or selling to.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:

    @ReggieCleveland said:
    I still don't understand what your point is, @Jimmy_Commonpants ?

    Arthur

    If you are buying cards from someone like 4SC who doesn't have to pay the grading fee, you are not only paying his grading fee for him, but you are also paying him the "premium" afforded by having a card graded and slabbed by PSA - when you likely wouldn't have paid him anything for the un-graded card. You are ripping yourself off! He can't sell raw cards in numbers like that or for those prices and he couldn't even be in business if he had to pay tens of thousands of dollars(or more) a year for grading services. All you are doing is lining his pockets by paying "inflated" prices he couldn't get without having the cards slabbed by PSA - and he isn't even paying for that. You've been had.

    Isn't it more likely that people such as "4SC" are little more than companies owned, operated by or affiliated with the investors in CU? Its the first thing that crosses my mind when I see someone with tens of thousands of PSA graded cards for sale. Its a pretty logical conclusion.

    I don't call that "nefarious" as you asked above, but its just another reason why I say the sports collectables market is essentially "Scientology" at this point.

    Who said 4SC doesn't pay grading fees?

    I think you are expending a lot of energy here to create some kind of conspiracy theory where there is evidence of none.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I got 82 cards graded last year and paid full price. 4SC probably graded well north of 100,000. It is just like anything in life the bigger the client the lower the fees.

    Nothing more and nothing less.

  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was unfamiliar with COMC subbing cards in to BGS under non-guaranteed service (non-g. refers to turn around time) until I saw the notice today that COMC has stopped doing it. That got me thinking, I wonder if COMC could negotiate a special contract agreement with PSA for a card sub rate similar to the cost structure offered to 4SC, since COMC would have the ongoing month to month business volume to support such a deal...
    Would be intriguing to have an option to send our raw cards to COMC, and have them subsequently include them in a big group sub to PSA for a super low discount per-card grading rate, lower than any of the monthly specials would ever get. They must have a system of some sort already in place over there if they had sent group subs to BGS.

  • Gemyanks10Gemyanks10 Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭

    @miwlvrn said:
    I was unfamiliar with COMC subbing cards in to BGS under non-guaranteed service (non-g. refers to turn around time) until I saw the notice today that COMC has stopped doing it. That got me thinking, I wonder if COMC could negotiate a special contract agreement with PSA for a card sub rate similar to the cost structure offered to 4SC, since COMC would have the ongoing month to month business volume to support such a deal...
    Would be intriguing to have an option to send our raw cards to COMC, and have them subsequently include them in a big group sub to PSA for a super low discount per-card grading rate, lower than any of the monthly specials would ever get. They must have a system of some sort already in place over there if they had sent group subs to BGS.

    This in theory would be cool, but trusting an unknown person to handle your cards between sending them off to COMC and then on to PSA is where I would be worried. Maybe I’m just paranoid?

    Always looking for OPC "tape intact" baseball wax boxes, and 1984 OPC baseball PSA 10's for my set. Please PM or email me if you have any available.
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