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1814 Classic Head Large Cent - GTG (First coin purchase of 2018)

oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited January 11, 2018 12:19PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I picked up a nice replacement Classic Head Large Cent for my 7070 Type Set and wanted to see what the forum members had to say about her in comparison to ATS. (Lighter color scratches are on the holder)

Thank you for your interest and comments!

oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...

Comments

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    F-15, nearly VF-20 details, but probably got dropped to F-12 due to some minor surface issues.

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,729 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice hole filler (and crack), methinks F-15.

    10-4,
    Erik
    My registry sets

    My Instagram pictures
  • ElKevvoElKevvo Posts: 4,120 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I guess a 20 on this. I like the die crack!

    K

    ANA LM
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with TommyType.
    I've seen comparable coins in both genny and straight grade slabs, but guessing it got a straight grade in F12/15 range.
    Overall I like it for what it is, and I still need a higher grade '14 Crosslet 4 like this one for my date and variety collection.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, yes, straight grade...at least through ATS...I will be sending this one in for crossover, along with a few others.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 1:44PM

    I will guess VF-20, EAC 12..surfaces a little rough, so EAC could drop it to a 10. But it is nice.

    Tom

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 1:50PM

    Would you like its "Technical" grade, "Commercial" grade, the TPGS grade on the label, or its "NET" grade? >:)

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    Would you like its "Technical" grade, "Commercial" grade, the TPGS grade on the label, or its "NET" grade? >:)

    Yes

    Early Dollar Set
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 3:02PM

    @tradedollarnut said:

    @Insider2 said:
    Would you like its "Technical" grade, "Commercial" grade, the TPGS grade on the label, or its "NET" grade? >:)

    Yes

    Guess I'll need to put up or wimp off the thread. I better do it soon or folks will think I'm waiting for other opinions before I give mine. Note: I have a very bad track record playing GTG.

    This is what I will do to avoid those thoughts. Since you have pined me down "Oh Great one..." Without any study I'm going to post a quick opinion BUT I'm going to reserve the right to change it when I have more time. If I change my opinion I will give the reason.

    Technical Grade: Fine-12, corroded and scratched (EDIT: drop scratched if on the plastic).

    Commercial Grade: The coin is a FINE but very nice except for the scratches. I have not seen an 1814 with what looks like a die break across the date and along the rim so I suspect it is residue on the surface that should have been removed before slabbing. As a dealer, I should write VF-20 >:) and come down in price if the collector saw the scratches. In my experience many would not. Nevermind, I think the scratches are on the plastic so I'm editing #1.
    If not scratched: Commercial Very Fine-20.

    TPGS Grade: Possibly Fine-15 straight grade. If NGC they may have sent a note recommending conservation to remove residue at the date.

    NET Grade: No idea at all as this is pure "FOLLY!" So many variables that even the copper guys disagree. However I'll take a guess. This may change when I get home and consult my EAC Grading Guide.
    For now, VG-10 as everything is boldly clear yet porosity and tiny rim nick obverse.

    EDIT: It took a while to write all this and I did not see the 4:44 post that I'm going to go back and agree with as I think @TPRC "nailed it too."

  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭

    For a series that come poorly struck and sometimes very dark, it has nice arm's length VG-10 look

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BIGAL2749 said:
    For a series that come poorly struck and sometimes very dark, it has nice arm's length VG-10 look

    IMHO, that's the way it would have been graded decades ago before the grading standards "evolved." You must be a long-time collector.

  • mirabelamirabela Posts: 5,040 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Straight grade, probably F12. Nice looking, as those go. I've found that's probably the hardest coin in the 7070 to get an example I like looking at for a price I don't feel stupid paying. I've had a number of them, none quite as nice as yours.

    mirabela
  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 5:32PM

    Vf 20. Changed due to rim wear

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I get home, I'll post an 1814 PCGS VG-10 and CAC for comparison. Some may prefer this coin....some my coin. Everything is a tradeoff. ;)

    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As several have stated, the 7070 Classic Large Cent slot is always a big challenge . . . much tougher than many numismatists believe. I always take my first lap around a show looking for Doilies and potentially decent Classics. I am rarely finding either.

    I have certified these with our hosts up to multiples in the VF-20 range (nothing higher) and see this as being in the VF-20 position (the detail on the hair curls seals it). The surface porosity does not seem out of place on these planchets (many used as ballast in leaky seagoing ships that took on bilge saltwater). The commonality of light porosity really ramps up how exquisite the few without problems really are.

    Thanks for posting . . .and I look forward to more comments from our members . . . . .

    Drunner

  • Sunshine Rare CoinsSunshine Rare Coins Posts: 2,320 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's mine - in my type set.

    Sunshine Rare Coins

    sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 5:33PM

    Vf20. Nice coin.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • BIGAL2749BIGAL2749 Posts: 742 ✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:

    @BIGAL2749 said:
    For a series that come poorly struck and sometimes very dark, it has nice arm's length VG-10 look

    IMHO, that's the way it would have been graded decades ago before the grading standards "evolved." You must be a long-time collector.

    You're right, I am old !

  • jedmjedm Posts: 3,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 6:23PM

    My first impression before seeing any other comments was a VF30 as far as wear, but net graded for the porosity. I was not quite sure how much the deduction would be so I am "guessing" that the ATS grade is VF20. I think if I saw this in an EAC dealer's selection it would be net graded to about 10 or 12. Not intending to disparage the OP's coin at all; however if the cost was the same, which I doubt it would be, I would prefer the PCGS F12 CAC example posted by @UltraHighRelief .

  • TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As promised (or threatened), here is a PCGS VG-10:



    Easily distracted Type Collector
  • jughead1893jughead1893 Posts: 1,499 ✭✭✭✭✭

    20

  • RollermanRollerman Posts: 1,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really agree with those who stated how hard getting a nice coin in this group can be. If not for the typical planchet roughness, I'd say VF20, but feel F15 is more in line. It's a nice coin for this group of Classic Headed coins.

    "Ain't None of Them play like him (Bix Beiderbecke) Yet."
    Louis Armstrong
  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm at Fine something.

    Larry

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a 20

  • ms70ms70 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2018 9:00PM

    Nice coin OP. I love the crack! I'd say 30.

    Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.

  • lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,892 ✭✭✭✭✭

    F15.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice Cents UHR & Tommy!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well... with the abundance of opinions here, I find that I must agree with the general range of 15-20.... :D How's that for playing it safe?? Cheers, RickO

  • goldengolden Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    15 here.

  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2018 4:49PM

    I think the coin is in a silently net graded 15 (or even 12) PCGS slab due to the granularity very typical in these coins as they were struck on crappy planchets to begin with. I would be a bit surprised by a VF grade on this coin, and I would personally look for one with a bit less problematic surfaces (as those of the other two examples posted). Respectfully...Mike

    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2018 4:48PM

    p.s. here is my 20 by way of comparison:


    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Really nice 1809/10 Mike!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,278 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 16, 2018 5:15AM

    My apologies for the delay, been working all weekend.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,102 ✭✭✭✭✭

    NGC got it right, at least from the non EAC grading perspective.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭

    I can't disagree with that silent net grade either. Thanks for sharing.

    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm actually happy to see NGC grading conservatively. I like the crack, and while I prefer the smooth planchet on the other coins pictured above, yours is a very decent example.

    Tom

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I disagree about the crack. It looks like dry goop - exactly like the goop behind the lower hair curl. This would be a major collectable variety. After curving around the bottom rim, the residue continues all up the right side.

    Someone please shut me up and post an EDS or LDS of this obverse. T

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have been looking for another die crack across the date as well...nothing yet.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @oih82w8 said:
    I have been looking for another die crack across the date as well...nothing yet.

    It is not a die break. It is a residue. IMO, it should have been removed before slabbing OR "detailed." These guys have a conservation lab very close to the grading room.

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No die breaks are mentioned on either of the known die states for Sheldon 294 (Crosslet 4), so I agree with Insider. I admit at first glance one would probably assume it is a die break....that may have even happened in the grading room.

    Interestingly, Sheldon 295 (Plain 4) DOES feature a die break near this area of the obverse on later die states, extending from the 8, up through star 11.

    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2018 1:54PM

    I'm not aware of any die breaks on crosslet 4 (s-294).

    I suspect it's a planchet problem exacerbated by the corrosion rather than 'residue' (?) or a die break.

    Remember, many of these classic head large cents were struck on really bad copper planchets.

    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The OP should be able to tell if it is a D/C or not in hand.

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