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Insurance vs safety deposit box
savitale
Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm re-evaluating my solution for coin security and looking for suggestions. Right now I'm trying to choose between a decent safe and insurance through Hugh Wood, or a bank safety deposit box. Any thoughts or better alternatives would be appreciated. I'm looking at storing about 10 blue boxes.
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I have insurance through hugh wood. They will ask you where you will be storing your coins. If they are going to be located in a sdb the premium will be lower than in a decent safe in your home. A decent safe in your home will also be a lower premium than no safe.
But, having a safe in your home might increase your homeowner's insurance rate. Check carefully before committing to something.
The key thing is discretion. If you have your rare coins in your house you have to be careful. When visitors, the cleaners, etc. come over don't assume they are idealistic/altruistic people interested is seeing your collection. The greatest valuables in the world could be hiding in plain sight forever as long as no one shares the secret.
large SDB over an in house safe
much cheaper and more secure
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I've never had an insurer ask me if I have a safe in my house!
It’s a no brainer, get a SDB. No matter how careful you are people will find out you own coins. The mailman who delivers your CoinWorld, the cleaning person, your wife or kid who innocently says something, etc. SDB’s have big disadvantages, you may not look at your coins for a few years, but you can’t beat the security. Homes with valuable jewelry and coin collection are targeted and robbed way too enough. Somebody had to know.
If you go with a safe, make sure it is bolted through the floor or to the wall studs. Some people throw a few bags of lead buckshot in the bottom.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I'm fully insured and also keep everything in a safe deposit box. Keep in mind that virtually no safe deposit boxes carry their own insurance, so in event of loss when one is in use you will have to already have your own insurance.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
One could get a fire proof gun valt weighing over 1500 hundred pound secured properly in their home. Robbers hate dogs so a couple big dogs is also a plus..plus added to the menu a couple of guns, a double barrel 12 ga shot gun, AR 15, and a 44 magum hand gun..but a 9mm will do...or you could just get a SDB at the bank.
Both
it always amuses me when the testosterone overcomes logic and replies talk about big dogs, alarm systems and lots of guns. the question to me always ends up as simple --- what is most important, the coins or the money invested??
--- if the coins are important, get a Safe Deposit Box.
--- if the coins don't really matter but the financial investment is important, get a good safe and home security system.
it's also important to remember that Loose Lips Sink Ships.
Check whether the bank provides insurance for the contents of the SDB. Usually they don't. So factor that into the equation too...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
SDB is the best but I will tell you, if you like looking at your collection occasionally it can be a pain. Maybe split and keep the less valuable like the SBA and Ike dollar collections at the house using insurance with everything else in the SDB.
K
Regarding the SDB, it would be best to check the laws in your state. In the event of your death, some states limit access until an inventory is made for purposes of inheritance taxes. This would apply even if there were another signer/co-owner on the box. When one signs to open a box that is jointly owned, you certify that all signatures on the box are living, so someone would not be able to clear out the box before anyone knows you died without committing fraud and being in deep excrement. Varies from state to state, so you would have to check the laws for your specific state.
Safe deposit boxes plus Hugh Wood insurance is the way I go.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
Only the SBD renter(s) know what's in the box. My wife is listed on my SBD and has specific instructions to remove the coins from the box immediately upon my death. Any later questions about her being in the box are to be answered with "removing insurance papers."
Note that the correct term is safe deposit box, not safety deposit box.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Don't get a fireproof safe without checking on the fireproofing material used in the specific model. Some are constructed with moisture intentionally impregnated in the material.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
There was a robbery near Columbus, OH some years back where they put a cable around the safe and jerked it right thru the walls.
derryb, Hopefully you do not live in PA or another Draconian state. From the PA website:
Who may enter a safe deposit box after the
death of a decedent?
No one is allowed to enter a safe deposit box, not
even a joint owner, except to remove a will and/or
burial instructions, which must be removed in the
presence of a bank employee. The bank employee
must complete PA Form REV-487 (Entry Into A Safe
Deposit Box To Remove A Will Or Cemetery Deed) to
record the entry and mail it to the PA Department of
Revenue. The contents of safe deposit boxes must be
inventoried before they can be removed.
This should work! It weighs over 1000 pounds. With my vicious dog no one has a chance.
Unless your demise occurs suddenly, it's best to clean out the SDB before the demise occurs.
That's pretty extreme.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
If you have 1000 pound safe or a 200 pound safe bolted to the floor with a monitored security system, it would take a professional safe cracker to get at it.
Whenever I let it slip that I have coins, I have to shoot the person I told.
Monitored security system would make even that difficult.
The real question is SDB vs. in-home safe. In either case you need some form of insurance. SDB contents are generally not insured by the bank or depository. In case of flood or fire or the rare theft, you could still be out of pocket.
SDB's all the way - even if you need to rent more than one.
Take high resolution pictures and store them on your phone so you can look at your collection anytime.
If bad people break into your home and come across a large safe, they just might wait for you to get home and make you open it. Not cool.
I recommend getting insurance as well.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
But it happened. One of the coins was a 93-S Morgan IIRC and I don't know it the coins were ever recovered.
Home system give you access and peace of mind
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Keep at least 10 lbs. of black powder in your safe.
It helps in locating the acetylene torch.
Unenforceable unless joint owner tells bank employee that SDB owner died. Just an attempt by the state to not miss out on any taxes. Note that for any inheritance taxes to be levied on an estate, the total estate must be valued at over $5+ million.
Not much different than requiring state residents to file and pay income tax on their untaxed, on-line purchases. Seen that one enforced lately?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Amateur hour... The only way to really be secure is to have a compound in the woods, tripwires, claymore mines, spring guns, robotic 50 cal guns on turrets, napalm moat, trap doors in the floor stuffed with hungry honey badgers, etc...
I was suggesting that one remove one's valuables from the SDB before they die. I believe they have the right to remove their own possessions from a shared SDB without approval from anyone else.
Hopefully we all get advance notice.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Also made more difficult by a monitored security system.
If one keeps valuable collectibles at home, the sophistication and number of concentric rings of security should be commensurate with the value of the collectibles. Insurance is a must of course.
I have maintained my own security for many years in many different homes. I know how to set up security rings and I know how to secure a home. I have been responsible for security in many facilities and use my knowledge and experience for my personal protection. I like my coins at home. I am not at all concerned with theft, since what I have implemented would take more than a professional to penetrate successfully.
Cheers, RickO
I have my coins in a backpack that is worn by vicious dogs (one pack, 11 decoy packs, a total of twelve vicious dogs) that are also trained to use assault weapons and call 911, if necessary.
Note that for any inheritance taxes to be levied on an estate, the total estate must be valued at over $5+ million.
"Federal" inheritance taxes.
Alex Relyea
@RogerB said:
But, having a safe in your home might increase your homeowner's insurance rate. Check carefully before committing to something.
I'm in the HO business in several states. Having a safe in your home should not increase your premium. Although I've not looked at every company in every state, I've been in the business many years and have never seen this come up - other than reducing your premium if you have scheduled jewelry or other scheduled valuables that you will keep locked up.
Note that a typical HO policy won't cover much in the way of numismatic items (or other valuables such as jewelry) unless you schedule them . By "scheduling" you list specific items and state their value, which often requires an appraisal. Your HO policy is then endorsed to cover these. You can discuss scheduling your collection with your agent, but the cost is generally prohibitive if you include in your HO policy.
I went the insurance route with Hugh Wood, which is a very low cost alternative. I want to look at my coins in the flesh more often than I would if I went the sdb route. May be some risk to my person, but life is full of risks.
@daltex said:
@derryb said:
Note that for any inheritance taxes to be levied on an estate, the total estate must be valued at over $5+ million.
I believe that figure was just doubled to 10M?
oldabeintx - Thanks for the correction. I was going by my HO insurance company and the questions they asked when I opened the policy a few years ago. Even had to certify the distance from my house to a fire hydrant (it's at the north west property corner).
Recommend both safe and SDB and insurance on both. During hurricane Harvey here in houston a guy in coin club his bank was flooded and he could not access his sdb for weeks to find out status of his coins.
If your any kind of seller you need instant access an SDB can be a hassle to get into. I guess a roster of say 60 slabs for your eBay store in the home safe, the rest in SDB and everything insured.
Also check vulnerability of bank SDB area to breakin. Not long ago I recall a story where thieves came in thru the roof of a bank to steal SDB contents from a bank in NJ.
derryb, Hopefully you do not live in PA or another Draconian state. From the PA website:
Who may enter a safe deposit box after the
death of a decedent?
No one is allowed to enter a safe deposit box, not
even a joint owner, except to remove a will and/or
burial instructions, which must be removed in the
presence of a bank employee. The bank employee
must complete PA Form REV-487 (Entry Into A Safe
Deposit Box To Remove A Will Or Cemetery Deed) to
record the entry and mail it to the PA Department of
Revenue. The contents of safe deposit boxes must be
inventoried before they can be removed.
State inheritance tax in PA 15%, in NJ 14%. (Depending on relationship of heirs). There is no minimum valuation with the state. Anything above zero gets taxed.
Yikes!
all the posts about how collectors are certain they can "secure" things at home remind me of that home invasion from a few years ago, I think it was in Texas, where 2-3 people were killed and the collection stolen. the thieves were eventually caught but you should be able to understand my point.
No home security works when there is a gun to your kid's head.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
My mother didn't. She would not have had any time, from the time she went into ICU until the time she passed a few weeks later, to get to a SDB,
Luckily, there wasn't anything there and Washington State isn't that draconian.
One other comment on this string of thoughts.......when someone dies, and they don't have a spouse or living with someone else, having anything of value around may not be a good idea. It can "disappear". Not all family members, or even friends, are as trustworthy as we think....especially if someone passes. It can really turn into "mine mine mine" and "money money money".
Luckily, with very little exception, that didn't happen to me as I was there, I had a reputation with the family and friends, and I had some trustworthy friends (and even family that was right there).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I've never been asked by a HO insurance company whether there is a safe in the house. Didn't know any of them asked.
I think Woods rates are cheaper when one has a safe.
As many have noted, if one keeps coins at home one needs to keep it very quiet and the coins out of sight. Same for any valuables.
Anything is possible re criminals though I've never heard of this happening to a homeowner w coins.
Of course criminal could do same and force the coin owner to get them from the SDB as has happened w ATM withdrawals.
It did happen to my father at his store in Baltimore in the early 80s. Robber w gun to my mom's head. My father shot and killed the criminal. Was quite effective.
I just taped a large sign to my safe stating that the next door neighbor has $30,000 in cash, 2 K's of coke, no safe, and is a pacifist.
I get a lot of new neighbors.