King Norton's Mint

These specimens keep coming and coming! Any idea who is the dealer/source of these being trickled into market?

Comments

  • RMWRMW Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    What specimens are you talking about, Boosibri? I’ve seen the odd one at auction but I haven’t noticed any big uptick in appearances.
    Is there a place where you are seeing them?

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 15,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just what are they? I've never heard of them.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2017 3:42PM

    I've noticed an uptick in the number of coins with that pedigree on eBay. They seem to be die trials/specimen strikes from the old King Norton's Mint. Many of them currently are being listed by Atlas Numismatics.

    There was another thread here on this a few years ago: Previous Thread

    As I understand it, the King Norton's Metal Company competed with the Heaton & Birmingham Mints for coinage contracts in the early 20th century. It was [eventually] bought out by the Birmingham Mint.

    The Birmingham Mint was established in 1794 by Ralph Heaton. In 1850 it acquired much of the equipment of The Soho Mint, part of the industrial empire built up by Matthew Boulton in association with James Watt. In 1889 the company changed its name from Ralph Heaton & Son to The Birmingham Mint Limited. In 1991 IMI acquired control of Birmingham Mint. IMI was previously part of ICI known as Imperial Metal Industries, and incorporated Kynoch Mint previously known as The King's Norton Metal Company. For a number of years there was a consortium consisting of the Royal Mint, Birmingham Mint, and King's Norton Metal company to bid for various minting contracts. (From: mintsoftheworld.com)

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 1,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2017 4:03PM

    Kings Norton Metal Company was a metal fabricator in Birmingham, England. They did 5% to 10% of their business in minting coins, mostly bronze, during the nineteenth century. They were rivals to the better known firm of 'Heatons', which was a major private coinage producer.

    Around the time of the First World War, Kings Norton even achieved the prestigious moment where their initials 'KN' appeared as a mintmark on the United Kingdom One Penny coin that the firm made in 1918 and 1919.

    Poor England has been stripped of her manufacturers, and while Kings Norton Metal Company held on for a very long time, it was finally acquired and re-acquired and then gutted. The archives of the firm, including many patterns and quantities of interesting proposed coin-like stuff, has hit the numismatic market in recent years.

    This article focuses on Heatons, but Kings Norton is mentioned:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Mint

    There is a very interesting reference to the Maria Theresa Thaler in the article on Heatons.

    Note that Kings Norton is a place, formerly a town on the outskirts of Birmingham, but now consumed by it. The English do not seem to use any punctuation in conjunction with the geographical name.

  • Karl Stephens was the sole purveyor of these coins and have seen more of these in the recent price list.

  • mvs7mvs7 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koincollect said:
    Karl Stephens was the sole purveyor of these coins and have seen more of these in the recent price list.

    Come to think of it, I did see a bunch of them when looking through his inventory boxes at ANA Denver this year.

  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 7,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koincollect said:
    Karl Stephens was the sole purveyor of these coins and have seen more of these in the recent price list.

    Thanks, that is what I was looking to learn

  • RMWRMW Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    Here is an example of a 1918 KN British Penny, NGC MS 65. Although the surfaces are borderline at best, the strike is far better than normal, as these typically are weakly struck , especially on the obverse. Hair detail is often completely absent. This one has good obverse detail.

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And the classic clash of George surrounding Britannica!

    @RMW said:
    Here is an example of a 1918 KN British Penny, NGC MS 65. Although the surfaces are borderline at best, the strike is far better than normal, as these typically are weakly struck , especially on the obverse. Hair detail is often completely absent. This one has good obverse detail.

  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 4,648 ✭✭✭✭

    Very nice! I always like good specimens of the 1918 and 1919 Branch Mints. My experience is that the 1919H is the most difficult to found in good metal and well struck up.

    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.
  • BoosibriBoosibri Posts: 7,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IT is mummy opinion that most of the coins being released are similar to printers samples made as a part of a sales proposal. I bought several of the first batch of Irish coins and flipped them in Ireland. The stream of coins in the market, particularly for Irish pieces, seems steady.

  • RMWRMW Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    Yup, this piece has the classic clash all right.
    And well struck pieces from this Mint, or from Heaton Mint are difficult to find for 1918 and 1919.
    Even the Royal Mint 1918s often come with little or no hair detail on the obverse. I wonder why that is?

  • brg5658brg5658 Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2018 11:30AM

    @koincollect said:
    Karl Stephens was the sole purveyor of these coins and have seen more of these in the recent price list.

    Was he really? Greg Margulies has sold a LOT of these on eBay. I guess it's possible Greg bought a lot of them from Karl Stephens...but I thought they were likely examples that Greg purchased direct from the King's Norton Mint when they closed.

    Greg has sold more than 100 PCGS graded coins from the King's Norton Mint on eBay alone since Oct 15, 2017. I have a hard time believing he got them all from Karl Stephens...

    :confused:

    -Brandon
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  • carabonnaircarabonnair Posts: 565 ✭✭✭✭

    "Clashing" vs "ghosting
    http://www.worldofcoins.eu/forum/index.php?topic=8334.0
    translateltd posted an informative reply:
    "Ghosting" is a different concept when used to describe bronze coins of Edward VII and George V in particular. Pennies and halfpennies of 1902-26 often show a hollowed outline of the King's head around the figure of Britannia. This was attributed to the royal effigy being too large for the flan, and effectively "sucking" metal away from the other side. It was one of the reasons for the adjustments made to the effigy in 1926-27 and then the reduced size of the effigy from 1928.

  • RMWRMW Posts: 219 ✭✭✭

    Of course I meant ghosting ;)

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