CL purchase - 90% junk silver

HappyHunting

21 yr old grandson's inheritance. This is just a small portion. Hopefully he'll sell me more.

djm

@HappyHunting said:

21 yr old grandson's inheritance. This is just a small portion. Hopefully he'll sell me more.

You know that stuff is stolen, right?
People don't inherit silver coins... The executor of the estates turns the assets into cash and distributes a check to the heirs. If some one wanted the coin collection it would be it would have been stipulated and they heir would not sell it in baggies.

ChrisRx

Stolen goods

mkman123

I'm guessing this will be the last time we hear from OP. Tell us more info but like others have said.....STOLEN

derryb

disagree, not in the estate's best interest to sell assets, the estate itself is on the hook for income taxes. Always better to distribute per the will and let the heir take possession, then sell and then pay any income tax. Estates don't normally sell the assets unless directed to by the will or by the heir(s).

My son inherited boxes of silver JFKs from his grandfather. Took possession and sold them all.

@ChrisRx said:
Stolen goods

While it could be true it is a pretty big assumption.

Bochiman

@djm said:

You know that stuff is stolen, right?
People don't inherit silver coins... The executor of the estates turns the assets into cash and distributes a check to the heirs. If some one wanted the coin collection it would be it would have been stipulated and they heir would not sell it in baggies.

Maybe, maybe not. Having just gone through this since this summer, being the executor of my mother's estate, I have seen what is stipulated and also how much leeway can be in there.

In my case, nothing was told to be sold. But, I have sold what I could of things (house closed on Friday). Unless there are specific stipulations in there, the executor has a lot of leeway and can decide how to hand things out.

In my case, there wasn't much but I was made the 100% heir who could decide how to hand out what I wanted any way I wanted. If mom had had 90% like that, it wouldn't have been sold, turned into cash, then disbursed. It would have been handed out to whoever I thought would appreciate going through it.

HappyHunting

@mkman123 said:
I'm guessing this will be the last time we hear from OP. Tell us more info but like others have said.....STOLEN

ChrisRx

@derryb said:
disagree, not in the estate's best interest to sell assets, the estate itself is on the hook for income taxes. Always better to distribute per the will and let the heir take possession, then sell and then pay any income tax. Estates don't normally sell the assets unless directed to by the will or by the heir(s).

My son inherited boxes of silver JFKs from his grandfather. Took possession and sold them all.

@ChrisRx said:
Stolen goods

While it could be true it is a pretty big assumption.

I also assume the sun will come up tomorrow.

bronco2078

Why would the executor turn this into cash? Just to pay taxes If you want to pass money to heirs do them a favor and make it untraceable and untaxable.

I'm going to look at a craigslist coin "inheritance " this afternoon , unfortunately most of the time they turn out to be state quarters in postal commemorative albums but you never know

Timbuk3

!!!

djm

@bronco2078 said:

Why would the executor turn this into cash? Just to pay taxes If you want to pass money to heirs do them a favor and make it untraceable and untaxable.

I'm going to look at a craigslist coin "inheritance " this afternoon , unfortunately most of the time they turn out to be state quarters in postal commemorative albums but you never know

It's simple why the executor would and should turn it into cash, It is better to pay a few dollars in taxes than have a family torn apart because one heir feels another got a bigger piece of the pie.

mvs7

I agree that there is no simple answer as to whether or not assets would be liquidated before disbursement in an estate situation. It really depends. I was the executor of my mom's estate and I did sell stuff and split the proceeds with my sister after paying taxes, expenses, etc., but that was mainly her home, car, non-heirloom furnishings, and other things neither my sister nor I wanted. On the other hand, my sister and I mutually agreed that I could keep a few CC dollars my mom bought in the 1970s GSA sale (in original boxes, but no rare dates or grades--I'd show a picture, but they are in the SDB) while my sister kept a similarly-valued amount of jewelry.

bronco2078

@djm said:

@bronco2078 said:

Why would the executor turn this into cash? Just to pay taxes If you want to pass money to heirs do them a favor and make it untraceable and untaxable.

I'm going to look at a craigslist coin "inheritance " this afternoon , unfortunately most of the time they turn out to be state quarters in postal commemorative albums but you never know

It's simple why the executor would and should turn it into cash, It is better to pay a few dollars in taxes than have a family torn apart because one heir feels another got a bigger piece of the pie.

Its very easy to divide a pile of 90% silver coin into shares , that is literally the whole point of junk silver. three heirs three shares , the key is no shares for uncle sam

TwoSides2aCoin

One man’s junk is another man’s jewel.

Go fish. Go find. Have fun. Play guess the grade with the gang. There is a better plastic holder for a few of them. (Better than baggies, I meant ) You found that place. Welcome.

HappyHunting

@mkman123 said:
I'm guessing this will be the last time we hear from OP. Tell us more info but like others have said.....STOLEN

Still here, anymore "last time" comments?>

PerryHall

Glad to see that you're sticking around.

ricko

I went through this a year and a half ago.... I was the executor and the inheritor... no living siblings.... I just liquidated everything. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN

If one liquidates coins AFTER inheriting them are there smoe sort of basis records kept?

CaptHenway

When I was working at the coin shop I once had a family come in with a quantity of mixed gold and silver bullion that they needed to have split three ways. They did not wish to sell. I divided the big stuff and the odds and ends as best I could into three bags worth within a few dollars of each other, and then had them draw lots to see who got each bag. They paid me for my time and said thank you.

HappyHunting

@mkman123 said:
I'm guessing this will be the last time we hear from OP. Tell us more info but like others have said.....STOLEN

yo @mkman123, still here...where are you?

gotta run, working on another CL "stolen" deal. will keep you posted.

or perhaps PM you for "bail" money?

HappyHunting

@HappyHunting said:

@mkman123 said:
I'm guessing this will be the last time we hear from OP. Tell us more info but like others have said.....STOLEN

yo @mkman123, still here...where are you?

gotta run, working on another CL "stolen" deal. will keep you posted.

or perhaps PM you for "bail" money?

not sure if these are real...only time will tell

what do y'all think? supposedly the images were taken by an iphone

derryb

@BAJJERFAN said:
If one liquidates coins AFTER inheriting them are there smoe sort of basis records kept?

Assets receive a new basis at the time of inheritance - their current market value. It is important for an heir to document and save this information. If assets are inherited and soon sold there is usually no capital gain since the new basis was set at the time of inheritance. Note that even if there is not an actual gain when the heir sells, reporting the income from the sale (capital gains/loss) is still required by the IRS on the heir's personal tax return. And if their is a loss (sell price vs. new basis), the loss can be used to offset capital gains for the tax year. This is why it is good to have a new basis on the high end of market value.

bronco2078

junksilver off craigslist is one thing , if that is supposed to be 20 oz. of gold I'd say pass

Kkathyl

Good thing those are the gold coins with the trackers. If stolen the scan will tell for sure.

BAJJERFAN

@derryb said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
If one liquidates coins AFTER inheriting them are there smoe sort of basis records kept?

Assets receive a new basis at the time of inheritance - their current market value. It is important for an heir to document and save this information. If assets are inherited and soon sold there is usually no capital gain since the new basis was set at the time of inheritance. Note that even if there is not an actual gain when the heir sells, reporting the income from the sale (capital gains/loss) is still required by the IRS on the heir's personal tax return. And if their is a loss (sell price vs. new basis), the loss can be used to offset capital gains for the tax year. This is why it is good to have a new basis on the high end of market value.

When one takes possession of an inherited asset/s does the IRS receive a copy of assets with basis or is it strictly an honor system?

derryb

@BAJJERFAN said:

@derryb said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
If one liquidates coins AFTER inheriting them are there smoe sort of basis records kept?

Assets receive a new basis at the time of inheritance - their current market value. It is important for an heir to document and save this information. If assets are inherited and soon sold there is usually no capital gain since the new basis was set at the time of inheritance. Note that even if there is not an actual gain when the heir sells, reporting the income from the sale (capital gains/loss) is still required by the IRS on the heir's personal tax return. And if their is a loss (sell price vs. new basis), the loss can be used to offset capital gains for the tax year. This is why it is good to have a new basis on the high end of market value.

When one takes possession of an inherited asset/s does the IRS receive a copy of assets with basis or is it strictly an honor system?

No copy to IRS. Just like any other capital gain/loss documentation would be required in an audit.

derryb

@HappyHunting said:

not sure if these are real...only time will tell

what do y'all think? supposedly the images were taken by an iphone

I think a Sigma Precious Metal Verifier would come in handy as well as a good eye for what authentic $20 gold pieces should look like. The poor pics don't show any indication of counterfeit. I would not buy hoping they are authentic.

BAJJERFAN

@derryb said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@derryb said:

@BAJJERFAN said:
If one liquidates coins AFTER inheriting them are there smoe sort of basis records kept?

Assets receive a new basis at the time of inheritance - their current market value. It is important for an heir to document and save this information. If assets are inherited and soon sold there is usually no capital gain since the new basis was set at the time of inheritance. Note that even if there is not an actual gain when the heir sells, reporting the income from the sale (capital gains/loss) is still required by the IRS on the heir's personal tax return. And if their is a loss (sell price vs. new basis), the loss can be used to offset capital gains for the tax year. This is why it is good to have a new basis on the high end of market value.

When one takes possession of an inherited asset/s does the IRS receive a copy of assets with basis or is it strictly an honor system?

No copy to IRS. Just like any other capital gain/loss documentation would be required in an audit.

I've never inherited anything much less anything of significance or value thus the reason for my asking. It seems to this observer that if the IRS doesn't know what you have then they don't know what you sold.

derryb

@BAJJERFAN said:

I've never inherited anything much less anything of significance or value thus the reason for my asking. It seems to this observer that if the IRS doesn't know what you have then they don't know what you sold.

They don't normally know unless there is a large banking money transfer by buyer or seller. They also don't know unless you OR SOMEONE ELSE tells them. I believe there is a reward for snitches and bank tellers make great snitches.

BAJJERFAN

@derryb said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

I've never inherited anything much less anything of significance or value thus the reason for my asking. It seems to this observer that if the IRS doesn't know what you have then they don't know what you sold.

They don't normally know unless there is a large banking money transfer by buyer or seller. They also don't know unless you OR SOMEONE ELSE tells them. I believe there is a reward for snitches and bank tellers make great snitches.

Well I was going to add that IF you get audited they may look at your bank account/s and ask you to explain any transaction/s that don't appear "right".

Bochiman

I also believe that certain states treat things differently when it comes to estates. There is a cutoff of value in some states, before things go a certain way, but in other states, I was told, that everything gets looked at.
And then, there is the federal level.

First thing I did, well, one of the first, in the first week after my mother's passing, was to go to a competent tax advisor. Would highly recommend that to anyone in that type of situation.

BAJJERFAN

@Bochiman said:
I also believe that certain states treat things differently when it comes to estates. There is a cutoff of value in some states, before things go a certain way, but in other states, I was told, that everything gets looked at.
And then, there is the federal level.

First thing I did, well, one of the first, in the first week after my mother's passing, was to go to a competent tax advisor. Would highly recommend that to anyone in that type of situation.

Wouldn't the attorney handling the estate advise of any tax consequences of selling assets? Unless of course one already has a fair idea of the assets the deceased has/had.

derryb

two types of federal taxes on the estate:
1. Estate tax on estates valued at more than $5.49 million.
2. Income tax on anything the estate itself receives as income during the probate process.

Then there is the final year filing of personal income tax for the deceased.

StampCoinGuy777

Why does anybody steel ANYTHING? Especially a whole coin collection.

Bochiman

@derryb said:
two types of federal taxes on the estate:
1. Estate tax on estates valued at more than $5.49 million.
2. Income tax on anything the estate itself receives as income during the probate process.

Then there is the final year filing of personal income tax for the deceased.

1. Yep. If one inherits that much, then I have no issues them paying taxes
2. Yep. When you are handling an estate, you have to get a tax identification number for the estate itself.

Not everyone has enough income to even file while they were alive, much less, deceased
(certain types of "income" are tax exempt when they are alive and receiving it...and the amount is low enough)

TwoSides2aCoin

We sure can pollute the site with non precious metal and non coin chat. Maybe we have a need for being authoritative. Might I suggest posting photos of tax forms and codes from here on.?

BAJJERFAN

@derryb said:
two types of federal taxes on the estate:
1. Estate tax on estates valued at more than $5.49 million.
2. Income tax on anything the estate itself receives as income during the probate process.

Then there is the final year filing of personal income tax for the deceased.

So the estate valued at over $5.49 million pays a tax and the inheritor/s of said estate also pay a tax? Or are you using estate tax to mean inheritance tax?

derryb

those are the two types of tax on the estate itself. One is for the value of the estate over the $5.49 million threshold (estate inheritance tax) and the other is for any income received by the estate (estate income tax) while the estate probate is open. If the estate sells a coin collection it has reportable income. An estate probate is "open" until formally closed with the probate court, usually after all estate assets have been disposed of.

Inheritors are also subject to an income tax on their personal tax returns for any inherited property that is sold after they take possession of it. If an heir sells the collection then he/she has reportable income.

This overview is relevant to coins and precious metals because owners and heirs of these items should be aware of the estate/inheritance tax implications. Coins, collections and precious metals are an asset of the estate until transferred to an heir. Always seek professional advice when making tax decisions, especially if they involve an estate.

BAJJERFAN

@derryb said:
those are the two types of tax on the estate itself. One is for the value of the estate over the $5.49 million threshold (estate inheritance tax) and the other is for any income received by the estate (estate income tax) while the estate probate is open. If the estate sells a coin collection it has reportable income.

Inheritors are also subject to an income tax on their personal tax returns for any inherited property that is sold after they take possession of it. If an heir sells the collection then he/she has reportable income.

This overview is relevant to coins and precious metals because owners and heirs of these items should be aware of the estate/inheritance tax implications. Coins, collections and precious metals are an asset of the estate until transferred to an heir. Always seek professional advice when making tax decisions, especially if they involve an estate.

So if an heir maintains the assets the heir pays no taxes? Are you using the terms estate tax and inheritance tax interchangeably?

BAJJERFAN

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
We sure can pollute the site with non precious metal and non coin chat. Maybe we have a need for being authoritative. Might I suggest posting photos of tax forms and codes from here on.?

Owning or inheriting coins and/or PMs oftentimes involves sale of such items, so discussion of consequences/repercussions of said sale/s is fair game for discussion here IMO.

derryb

@BAJJERFAN said:

So if an heir maintains the assets the heir pays no taxes? Are you using the terms estate tax and inheritance tax interchangeably?

If an heir maintains possession of an inherited coin collection, the heir only pays taxes (capital gains/loss) when he/she sells the collection. That may be years later. This is why it is important to know that the cost basis of the collection gets reset to its current value (and needs to be documented in personal records) at the time of the inheritance.

There is an inheritance tax on what the heir inherited, regardless of what he does with it, but it is paid by the estate and only if the estates net assets exceeded the $5.49 million earlier discussed. This estate inheritance tax has no affect on an individual heir's tax obligations which are based on the income generated after disposing of inherited property. An heir has no personal tax obligations on inherited property until he disposes of the inherited property.

Yes, an estate tax return is sometimes referred to as inheritance tax, and is filed and paid by the estate. Again there is a separate estate income tax return required for any income received by the estate while it is in the probate process. This would include income generated from the sale of a coin collection by the estate.

Keep in mind that to the IRS an estate is an taxable entity of its own just as is each individual heir.

I am providing an overview of what I learned when serving as executor for a rather complicated estate that did include coin collections. Not only is the probate complicated but so is the tax return filing. I strongly suggest that any estate planning include a professional in each of the two areas.

BAJJERFAN

@derryb said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

So if an heir maintains the assets the heir pays no taxes? Are you using the terms estate tax and inheritance tax interchangeably?

If an heir maintains possession of an inherited coin collection, the heir only pays taxes (income) when he she sells the collection. That may be years later. This is why it is important to know that the cost basis of the collection gets reset to its current value, and needs to be documented in personal records, at the time of the inheritance.

There is an inheritance tax on what the heir inherited, regardless of what he does with it, but it is paid by the estate and only if the estates net assets exceeded the $5.49 million earlier discussed. This estate inheritance tax has no affect on an individual heir's tax obligations which are based on the income generated after disposing of inherited property. An heir has no personal tax obligations on inherited property until he disposes of the inherited property.

Yes, an estate tax return is sometimes referred to as inheritance tax, paid by the estate. Again there is a separate estate income tax return required for any income received by the estate while it is in the probate process. This would include income generated from the sale of a coin collection by the estate.

Keep in mind that to the IRS an estate is an entity of its own just as is the individual heir.

Having recently been thru my MIL's estate probation [zero benefit to me BTW] , I'm aware of most of that info. Just wanted to make sure that both the estate and heir/s aren't taxed.

TwoSides2aCoin

@BAJJERFAN said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
We sure can pollute the site with non precious metal and non coin chat. Maybe we have a need for being authoritative. Might I suggest posting photos of tax forms and codes from here on.?

Owning or inheriting coins and/or PMs oftentimes involves sale of such items, so discussion of consequences/repercussions of said sale/s is fair game for discussion here IMO.

@BAJJERFAN said:

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
We sure can pollute the site with non precious metal and non coin chat. Maybe we have a need for being authoritative. Might I suggest posting photos of tax forms and codes from here on.?

Owning or inheriting coins and/or PMs oftentimes involves sale of such items, so discussion of consequences/repercussions of said sale/s is fair game for discussion here IMO.

True ... And until it's sold it hasn't any value. I mean it's worth FV except at coinstar where it will be in the reject slot or worth $.89 on the dollar. But I enjoy reading the information.

It's just junk. We should keep this in mind.

acloco

Only if the attorney handling the estate has training/certification/etc as an accountant/cpa/similar.

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Bochiman said:
I also believe that certain states treat things differently when it comes to estates. There is a cutoff of value in some states, before things go a certain way, but in other states, I was told, that everything gets looked at.
And then, there is the federal level.

First thing I did, well, one of the first, in the first week after my mother's passing, was to go to a competent tax advisor. Would highly recommend that to anyone in that type of situation.

Wouldn't the attorney handling the estate advise of any tax consequences of selling assets? Unless of course one already has a fair idea of the assets the deceased has/had.

BAJJERFAN

@acloco said:
Only if the attorney handling the estate has training/certification/etc as an accountant/cpa/similar.

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Bochiman said:
I also believe that certain states treat things differently when it comes to estates. There is a cutoff of value in some states, before things go a certain way, but in other states, I was told, that everything gets looked at.
And then, there is the federal level.

First thing I did, well, one of the first, in the first week after my mother's passing, was to go to a competent tax advisor. Would highly recommend that to anyone in that type of situation.

Wouldn't the attorney handling the estate advise of any tax consequences of selling assets? Unless of course one already has a fair idea of the assets the deceased has/had.

IMO, an attorney who has little or no grasp of tax issues probably has no business closing an estate.

derryb

@BAJJERFAN said:

@acloco said:
Only if the attorney handling the estate has training/certification/etc as an accountant/cpa/similar.

@BAJJERFAN said:

@Bochiman said:
I also believe that certain states treat things differently when it comes to estates. There is a cutoff of value in some states, before things go a certain way, but in other states, I was told, that everything gets looked at.
And then, there is the federal level.

First thing I did, well, one of the first, in the first week after my mother's passing, was to go to a competent tax advisor. Would highly recommend that to anyone in that type of situation.

Wouldn't the attorney handling the estate advise of any tax consequences of selling assets? Unless of course one already has a fair idea of the assets the deceased has/had.

IMO, an attorney who has little or no grasp of tax issues probably has no business closing an estate.

Not all states require an attorney, but if you have one you want it to be an estate attorney. I was fortunate that SC does not require an attorney and the county probate court's website gave me all the information and forms I needed. The court also conducted classes for individual's serving as executors. Some of the property was located in FL where an attorney was required for that portion of the probate. I had to deal with county probate court in every county property was located.

I remember a few years back, the deceased asked if he should sell his rental properties, that he had owned for years, before he died and split the funds with his kids. I correctly advised him not to sell, continue collecting rent and continue taking advantage of the property depreciation write-off. When he died shortly thereafter his kids inherited the properties, a new basis (current market value) was established as a "cost" and they sold them at current market value at little profit. Had the deceased sold before death he would have faced enormous capital gains on rental property that he had owned for years. The kids would have split much, much less money. The lesson here could easily apply to a long held coin collection.

VanHalen

When my uncle passed he had several thousand dollars in gold and silver coins in his SDB. His children, my three cousins, split the coins up. I helped count and appraise the lot. The were about 10 common double eagles and most of the rest were common silver dollars and silver halves. I believe it totalled about $20k melt in 2013 when we went through it all. His kids kept the coins.

derryb

@VanHalen said:
When my uncle passed he had several thousand dollars in gold and silver coins in his SDB. His children, my three cousins, split the coins up. I helped count and appraise the lot. The were about 10 common double eagles and most of the rest were common silver dollars and silver halves. I believe it totalled about $20k melt in 2013 when we went through it all. His kids kept the coins.

Hopefully the cousins kept written documentation of the value at time of inheritance, it's their "cost" when they sell and have to figure out capital gain/loss.

HappyHunting

HappyHunting

rte592

@HappyHunting said:

Brager
Nice picture, Details Man....
what's up with the No Details?
We want Details....
Any nice walkers in the lot you may part with?