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Trying to identify odd-weight gold bar

CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 13, 2017 9:20AM in Precious Metals

My former employers were offered a modern J-M four nines gold bar that is marked as 11.268 grams. Thought it might have been a One Tola equivalent, but it is a bit too light for that. Anybody know what it might be the equivalent of?
Thanks,
TD

Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.

Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The very one. But what is the purpose of the oddball weight?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting !!! :)

    Timbuk3
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    End of the day casting?? :D:D Cheers, RickO

  • This is a 1/3 tola bar.

  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭

    pretty neat and interesting bar.

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  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @silversiren said:
    This is a 1/3 tola bar.

    a tola is a unit of measurement equal to 11.663 grams. OP's bar weighs 11.268.

    The decline from democracy to tyranny is both a natural and inevitable one.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a handy chart giving weights for Tolas and Taels and other things:

    http://www.goldbarsworldwide.com/PDF/BI_3_GoldConversionTables.pdf

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Anyone? Class? Bueller?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,922 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just a thought: There were actually different "tola" weights based on location. The most common tola is probably the Indian tola, at 11.6638 grams. But there was also apparently a Pakistani tola at 12.5 grams.

    Given the age of this piece, and the geopolitical ramifications (I'm thinking ARAMCO-type need), I wonder if it's possible this was minted specifically for another region where this would have been a common weight. Or maybe, it was the amount of pure gold needed to serve as the base for whatever purity that region's tola- (or other weight) coin would equal once completed? 11.268 grams of gold plus 11% copper or silver would equal that Pakistani tola, within a thousandth of a gram, if my math is correct.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • Did I mention I think that little bar is SWEET?!

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't know when this bar was made/issued (other than being modern era as indicated by the four nines).
    But if gold was $1,380 per troy oz then this bar would be worth right at $500.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dcarr said:
    I don't know when this bar was made/issued (other than being modern era as indicated by the four nines).
    But if gold was $1,380 per troy oz then this bar would be worth right at $500.

    And the next day it wouldn't be, so I doubt if that was the reason for the weight.

    I am thinking it was some regional version of a Tola. Maybe an Un-Tola?

    ;)

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Let me be the one to say "ugh" to that!!!

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bump for the watcher.
    Still no idea what it was issued for,

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2024 2:31PM

    Could it be a simple answer? Maybe they poured the bars to fill the molds, weighed them and stamped them with their actual weight in grams. No extra effort for detailed pours or filing to get every bar some same equivalent weight.

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,209 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    End of the day casting?? :D:D Cheers, RickO

    This is a real possibility. After pouring several bars, the refinery had a little melted gold left over so they poured it into their smallest mold and then marked it with its actual weight.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wish that we still had the picture.

    Maybe somebody sent some gold to be refined with the stipulation that the refined gold be returned to him marked with fineness and weight. I dunno. Just guessing.

    When my first wife died I took all of her gold jewelry (and she had a lot, what with being married to a coin dealer and all) and scrapped it rather than having somebody else wearing it. Imagine it I had had the recovered gold cast into an ingot and returned to me.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • What one looks like from a quick google search…

  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2024 12:19PM

    The "11.268" marking is part of the stamping die. Since the die takes considerable effort to manufacture, this would not be how "end of day" or leftover gold would be marked. If the weight was counter-stamped using a character set, I might agree that it was a leftover. But the weight is an integral part of this die.

    11.268 grams of 999 gold is almost exactly the same gold content as three traditional USA Quarter Eagles coins, or one Half Eagle plus one Quarter Eagle, or five Gold Dollars plus one Quarter Eagle, or 3/8 of a Double Eagle. In other words, $7.50 face value of traditional USA .900 fine gold coins.

    That might explain "what".
    But it still does not explain "why".

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely an intended exact weight of something, but what?

    If you google "11.268 grams" you will find sales of a few more of these, but no explanation as to what they represent. Has anybody googles J-M's website?

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • GoldminersGoldminers Posts: 3,564 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2024 1:49PM

    This is a true mystery. I searched all kinds of old links to JM and checked foreign gold standards and have not found anything to explain this.

  • I sent an inquiry to Vik Kundu via the JM website:

    https://matthey.com/products-and-markets/pgms-and-circularity/pgm-refining-and-recycling

    Maybe they will respond.

    Yelling at clouds on pmbug.com

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