A way to look at whether or not to sell your coins.
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
I keep thinking of various assets one can own and I keep coming back to coins.
Maybe the family knows nothing NOW, but there's a chance, slim though it may be, that we'll get a return to prosperity for whatever passes for "middle class" once more.
It's hard to think of a more compact and portable asset than coins or bullion or mix of both.
If the family EVER decides to dump the bequest, it will be treated as a "step up" basis and there ...shouldn't ... be any taxable gain on the sale.
I've owned stocks, mortgages, RE and coins.
Coins are all I can think of that is enduring and quite likely to become an asset of choice especially if the holdings are quality and mixed both US and darkside.
At least that's how I'm regarding my coins.
And while I hold the reins, they give me pleasure and keep me interested in stuff that isn't "mainstream."
And....if it comes down to liquidity of a legacy, well, that isn't MY problem. 
I honestly think that a coin collection of any quality is pretty much a universally prudent legacy.
And that's MY story and I'm stickin' to it. 
Comments
And the more gold coins in your collection the better!
I agree.
....mostly.
Just buy right and it will all fall in place.
Hoard the keys.
Topstuf = Dr Pangloss
If. I tried to read 'Candide' in the original eighteenth century French language, I think I would understand more of that than what I can make out of the OP's mishmash.
It is one thing to have the coin virus inextricably in your blood, but pricey numismatic coins are a luxury even when times are very good.
Government continuing to destroy the dollar makes me keep mine.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
Have a focus, EDUCATE yourself, train your eye to KNOW your series.
Buy coins that have quality, scarcity & eye appeal and hold for the long term adding and building on to your collection, as you move forward.......that is my recipe/hypothesis for success.
When the time comes you'll be justly rewarded.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Well said my coin brother
I'd like to hold on until the last moment. And sell just before it. But I am not quite sure of the timing.
If I sell now and live without my treasures for another 20 years I'll be very bummed.
So I think I'll leave things to my heirs (maybe leave them some good advice) and try not to care too much from six feet under.
Lance.
The transaction costs for the vast majority of coins that attract my numismatic attention overcomes their attractiveness as an an investment, at least to me.
They are certainly an enjoyable and worthwhile legacy though.
GOLD !!!
If you eventually die (some do), and if you have a will (less do), appoint a numismatic executor (most dealers do) who has the ability to max out your holdings over a reasonable (a year?).
My specific plan is for maximum 5 years, minimum 20% sold per year, and all can be sold at any time at the executor's discretion. Likely 75%-90% will be gone in a year. Also, check out setting up a trust from your estate.
Falling in love with a coin can hurt me. But I'm a dealer. If you collect, falling in love is the whole point,
YMMV
While I like coins, I disagree with the concept of coins as an positive inheritable asset. The numismatic executor is a great idea, and will at least get close on value, assuming the delta between buy and sell prices is close enough to close the gap, not withstanding any appreciation. Sadly, there are FAR too many players in this game that salivate over the estate collection coming to market by an undereducated seller.
I have 3 significant sets of "toys in the toy box". I do not expect my family to know the values, be able to adequately market the items, etc. So, out of the play money, I have a separate life insurance policy that exceeds the value of the toys, so if a 757 jet engine falls on me, the policy covers the toys, and my family can ATTEMPT to maximize the value of selling the toys but do not have to STRESS that they may have been taken on something.
My mom used to warn us that among her (Jewelry, antiques, paintings, whatevers) that some was very very valuable, and some was just Woolworths (Whatever Woolworths was) and that do sell everything for a dollar. She said she would mark the valuable things so we would not sell them too cheap. Many times we offered to help her mark things, but it was never " a good time to do that".
Guess what my mom, after saying that for 40 years, never did.
Weaklings.....
Don't quote me on that.
I have more money in stocks and bonds, but coins bring me the most pleasure. That's why my wife doubts that I will sell them during my lifetime.
I hope that's true. I have become a bit of a gold bug in recent years, even to the point of buying some British gold nobles, angels and sovereigns. All of them are numismatic pieces, however, so the bullion part has taken a backseat as part of the price.
@mustangmanbob
If I could hit both the agree and the like buttons for your last post, I would do so.
Woolworths was "the dime store", sold mostly dry goods and sundries and misc. Usually had a lunch counter too. Lots of people bought their blue Whitman coin folders there. Our local Woolworths even had a flippy glass and iron frame that held old coins in 2x2 cardboards between two sheets of glass for viewing. I bought several coins there in the early 1970s.
I advocate only income producing real estate for passing on intergenerational wealth. If you need an institutional Trustee and a professional manager to do what the heirs cannot, do it. IMHO, all personal property needs to be dispersed to the heirs quickly after someone dies.
And yes, there are sharks who live by picking-off estates with old coins.
I do not stress over what will happen after my demise. My coins do represent an investment, however, that money is gone. Whether or not a profit or loss is gained/incurred after I am gone is not really important. I do know the gold will be properly dealt with. Also the silver stacks. As to the rest, I have enjoyed them far beyond their cost and whatever is derived by my heirs is not my concern. Cheers, RickO
I sincerely doubt that I will hold on to "my" coins for very long. We are the keepers of them for a finite time and when I choose to sell, there will be a reason for doing so. I do have images of (most of) the coins that I have possessed, which still give me joy to an extent, but the coins will go to another to enjoy...if only for a small window of time.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
My collection is not something that will be important to my family. My only son will enjoy it and he understands the hobby really well. He is 25 and knows he will get stuck with selling it off. I have used any real money to buy rental property. It's been very kind to me over the years. Stocks and bonds have been very kind to my wife. It's been a fun contest between us for the past 30 years. She finally told me the other day that I win.
I think the important thing is to invest in many different things. Don't let your collection become all that important.
Who could argue with that. It is a good idea to keep a ledger but not all collectors do. I have organized my collection to the best of my ability but I am sure to a non collector it might not help if 10-20 years go by. I plan on reviewing my collection once a year if I can, but we will see.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I go through this issue periodically. Given I will be 70 on my next birthday, in relative decent health, I hope to have my collection for a while. I do have an inventory of all my slabbed coins and how to liquidate them in my safety deposit box, along with other materials like a will, password file, etc. so what my heirs will not have trouble when the time comes.
That said, every now and then I think I have too much of my assets in coins and I liquidate the current collection focus. The problem being that I always begin another one, LOL, and thus the issue returns again. FYI, for me too much is >2% of my net worth.
I believe the instructions are important as no one wants family to be cheated, even if we are gone.
I just gave you a "Like." On everything except cursing your heirs with.....SILVER !!!
Disclaimer: I dislike silver intensely and like gold commensurately WAY MORE !
I'm still waiting for Ian to get off the stick and print up some little brochures about Great Collections that can be stuffed into a SDB !!!
@topstuf....I do not think of silver as a curse..... it will always be a liquid resource.... perhaps not providing the ROI of gold, but since they did not pay for it, it will provide something.
Cheers, RickO
That's kinda my idea, too. Nobody can complain about free stuff.
I have said this before (and am not fishing for sympathy), but while liquidating my Dad's estate, many things (collectibles) that he paid good money for only brought 10%-15% of what he paid for them prior to the Great Recession of 2007-2009. I know he thought he was leaving his kids a lot of gilt-edged stuff.
It may be "free stuff" to your heirs, but an 85% haircut is still an 85% haircut.
The "value" of any inheritance depends on the demand for the goods.
My OP suggested that QUALITY coins can be a pretty long lasting legacy and NOT if one HAS to sell or sells no matter what the market condition might be.
Yes.... a box of proof sets from the 1970's are gonna bring peanuts.
And yes, a box of CLASSIC coins can be salable at any time (with periods of greater or lesser ability to have the means to buy them.)
I was discussing coins only. "Collectibles" are willy nilly for value.
P'raps Beanie Coins might not be the best legacy.
My RCI is to produce income to finance my other hobbies. At some point it wb sold / liquidated.
Market has been horrible both shows and online. No upward movement seemingly decreasing pop of retail buyers.
If your selling out just send them all to eBay auction, start at 99c.
Coins as an investment? The U.S. coins asset class peaked almost 30 years ago in 1989. Just checked, and the PCGS 3000 index is down 15.87% since November 2014. Even if one buys carefully, those are some difficult odds to overcome.
I remember Bowers and Ruddy....and then Bowers and Merena publishing the Rare Coin Review and stating something like We know of no one who has purchased a quality collection held for ten years that has not realized a profit. That statement vanished many years ago.
Maybe they will recover. I collect high grade commemoratives. They have "performed" even worse than most coins. But I like the series, and I can now collect coins I could only dream of owning back in the peak year of 1989. I've left instructions for best sale practices should I not live forever.
And wow...my British hammered coins have done rather well as an investment, blowing away gold, silver, and U.S. coins.
That's why I suggested mixing US with other coins.
The appeal of numismatics seems to be globalizing.
I still think US will continue to garner interest just due to a more local base.
Not blistering, but eventually coming into its own as it always has.
I'm also still thinking that the service-that-shall-not-be-named will take steam out of "normal" US coins.
Dunno if the upswing in cool foreign is due to that factor or not, but my OP clearly said that I'd consider "darkside" to be a good element to have in your collection.
....or PORTFOLIO.
I'm not trying to be nosey, but what market/collectible tanked that much?
The relevant questions:
1. Do the coins make me happy?
2. Will the answer to question #1 stay the same even if it means losses when liquidated?
If you're looking for a financial investment, I would move away from most coins except perhaps for the high five figure+ rarities. The costs of liquidation (look at auction house commissions) and higher capital gains tax rate (28% for luxury items including collectibles) make coins much less attractive assets for investment purposes. I have never done a like-kind exchange with coins, but I'm betting it is a lot easier to do with real estate and other assets.
Coins are unusual in how people regard them.
The same folks who lament a loss in value will go buy a new car and lose 20% in five minutes after taking the keys.
I do it too. I'll wangle price and then leave the show and go spend 100 bucks on dinner and not think a thing about a legacy of digested prime rib.
We're nuts. Admitting it is the first step to accepting it.
It's a HOBBY. Enjoyment has a price.....and... a VALUE
We gotta stop looking at the cost of our enjoyment as a terrible failure.
It's ...also... the reason for the thread. I am still convinced that a well selected coin collection is an enduring asset both financially and historically and will eventually be a well chosen way to use discretionary income. Portable, historically valuable, always interesting, and damn fine looking.
Cheers.....toppo
Good advise.
If it's under management, it's a damn good choice.
Mostly what I'm talking about is completely priivate wealth that can be handed down.
Nothing fits all situations.
China, Ceramics, nice old Victorian serving dishes, 'Old Sleepy Eye' stoneware, Mary Gregory glassware were all losers. Dad loved them because they reminded him of his maternal grandparents. He loved Old Sleepy Eye because of the Minnesota/Scandinavian connection. He also lost a lot of money on late date Toy tractors (Ertl and other manufacturers (which he sold via auction, late in life).
Dad broke even on his collection of approximately fifteen antique farm tractors. He sold these himself while he was still in good mental and physical shape.
Dad did a little bit better than inflation of his Morgan and Peace silver dollars. Over nearly forty years, a five thousand dollar investment became twenty-five thousand dollars. I sold these shortly after his death and split proceeds with siblings.
Sorry for any delay in my response.