Bullion 1 oz Gold Coin - How large is the spread between a Dealer's bid and ask prices at coin show?

CoinPhysicist

Hi All! Hopefully everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.

I have a question for the dealers among us. I overheard a dealer at a recent major national level coin show telling someone who was offering to sell him raw gold coins that he only makes $10 or $20 on a 1 oz raw gold coin. Is that true? Is the profit margin really only 1%? Or was he lying to try to make a nice buy for himself?

Basically I am curious about what dealers buy and sell a raw 1 oz gold coin at. Say spot is $1300. What is your buy and sell price for a 1 oz raw USA or Canadian minted bullion coin?

Bonus question: How would it change for a slabbed coin with generic date and a generic grade?

Thank you for all your insights!

Timbuk3

From my experience of the dealers that I know, they usually buy $40 below spot and sell $40 above spot !!!

Coulport

$45 - $50 for US bullion.
$30 - $35 for Krug or Maple.
Same money for slabed bullion

Coulport

Can't figure how to edit.
Make that $55 - $60 for Krug or Maple

bronco2078

dealers try to stay on message whenever its possible they might be "overheard" , I have "overheard" they regularly walked 10 miles to school each day in year round blizzards .

Remember to donate to your coin dealer at Christmas time , , they may desperately need whatever you can give to buy a crude wooden crutch for a small boy

ricko

I strongly doubt that what you heard is factual.... at least not as a standard practice. Maybe a one time deal for a special customer....The dealer would need an incredible volume to profit at that level.... Cheers, RickO

OPA

This might five you some idea ... buy & sell price at APMEX, which is similar to other major Nationwide bullion dealers

https://www.apmex.com/apmextop40

rawteam1

The buy price at Apmex is phantom at best...

CoinPhysicist

Thanks for the insights. Seems like he was not particularly telling the truth there. Seems like the dealer buys more like spot-$30 and sells for spot+$30 according to the responses here. And that the spread is a little wider for a maple than for US.

Justacommeman

$40

mark

Wingsrule

Lots of gold bars at MSNS today for sale at spot +$10, very little action from the dealers I spoke with. Not sure about AGEs.

rawteam1

If they buy at spot they will lose money pretty much all the time...

BAJJERFAN

@rawteam1 said:
The buy price at Apmex is phantom at best...

That's bullchit. The one or 2 times I sold to them, they paid their advertised buy price, $15 over for AGEs as I recall. If they don't have a buy price listed, it usually means that they aren't in need of any.

BAJJERFAN

@Wingsrule said:
Lots of gold bars at MSNS today for sale at spot +$10, very little action from the dealers I spoke with. Not sure about AGEs.

Spot + $10 is a lot better when spot is $1220 or so.

BAJJERFAN

@totally said:
Thanks for the insights. Seems like he was not particularly telling the truth there. Seems like the dealer buys more like spot-$30 and sells for spot+$30 according to the responses here. And that the spread is a little wider for a maple than for US.

Depends upon the dealer and area. At least 1 or 2 semi-local dealers pay $15 over for AGEs and $10 over for leafs. Not sure what they're paying lately.

OPA

@rawteam1 said:
The buy price at Apmex is phantom at best...

Nonsense. I've sold numerous bullion gold bars & coins, at different times at the Baltimore coin show & over the phone and have always received their advertised price. None was ever below spot.

Kkathyl

10-20 over spot is typical when the market is flooded or buying is at a low point. Not unusual to hear this.

CoinPhysicist

so if i understand it, sometimes a dealer will buy closer to spot or even above spot for an AGE or Canadian Leaf?

BAJJERFAN

@totally said:
so if i understand it, sometimes a dealer will buy closer to spot or even above spot for an AGE or Canadian Leaf?

I'd say many times. but again it depends upon the dealer and the area.

BAJJERFAN

@Kkathyl said:
10-20 over spot is typical when the market is flooded or buying is at a low point. Not unusual to hear this.

I'd think that when there are more sellers than buyers, you'd have a harder time getting those figures if you're selling to a dealer.
Right now on the APMEX website they have 2017 AGEs at $1360 for a single coin. With spot at $1291, that's $69 over. I can assure you that if you buy one and pay shipping [appears to be free shipping] that you'll be looking long and hard to make a profit or even break even if you decide to sell it; esp. if you're a casual seller with limited resources for selling. There are too many competing better deals for a person looking to buy a single coin.

Justacommeman

I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

CoinPhysicist

Interesting, thanks. This isn't a world I've delved into so I was just curious what it is like. Just to be clear, the above posters are talking about raw coins right? I assume a slabbed one would have some sort of an added premium?

BAJJERFAN

@totally said:
Interesting, thanks. This isn't a world I've delved into so I was just curious what it is like. Just to be clear, the above posters are talking about raw coins right? I assume a slabbed one would have some sort of an added premium?

Depends. A dealer would likely look at the slab like it wasn't there. I would think that in today's counterfeit-prone market that coins in PCGS holders with a simple GEM-BU designation [lowest possible cost of $8/$10 per coin] would provide a measure of comfort to potential buyers.

rawteam1

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

OPA

@rawteam1 said:

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

Name two of those "best" dealers that pay under spot for gold coins and links to your assessment. I want to make sure to delete them off my list.

rawteam1

@OPA said:

@rawteam1 said:

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

Name two of those "best" dealers that pay under spot for gold coins and links to your assessment. I want to make sure to delete them off my list.

The very fact that nowhere did I say/post anything about 2, two, or 2,two is why I ignore most everyone here... lol...

OPA

@rawteam1 said:

@OPA said:

@rawteam1 said:

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

Name two of those "best" dealers that pay under spot for gold coins and links to your assessment. I want to make sure to delete them off my list.

The very fact that nowhere did I say/post anything about 2, two, or 2,two is why I ignore most everyone here... lol...

Sounds to me, your posts are full of hot air instead of facts.

BAJJERFAN

@OPA said:

@rawteam1 said:

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

Name two of those "best" dealers that pay under spot for gold coins and links to your assessment. I want to make sure to delete them off my list.

@OPA said:

@rawteam1 said:

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

Name two of those "best" dealers that pay under spot for gold coins and links to your assessment. I want to make sure to delete them off my list.

What kind of gold are we talking about? Coins, bars, rounds?

Justacommeman

If you're selling AGE's or Maple Leafs for under spot you are not doing your homework, heeding poor advise, are lazy or live in a one horse town

mark

Justacommeman

.

MsMorrisine

@totally said:
Interesting, thanks. This isn't a world I've delved into so I was just curious what it is like. Just to be clear, the above posters are talking about raw coins right? I assume a slabbed one would have some sort of an added premium?

took a non-first strike proof buffalo in pcgs pr70dcam into a coin store many years ago and was offered melt despite my protests.

I suppose you are asking about generic $20 double eagles. Perhaps those more into them can say, and perhaps they can confirm the market is 24k soft for them right now.

BAJJERFAN

@Justacommeman said:
If you're selling ASE's or Maple Leafs for under spot you are not doing your homework, heeding poor advise, are lazy or live in a one horse town

mark

AGEs, no? I think the last Leaf I sold [selling was optional] I got spot for as the dealer really didn't need it. Still, walking out with cash/check in hand beat trying to sell it for $20 over [if you could sell it for that] and having to ship it and fret until it was safely delivered. Many times a fast nickel beats a slow dime.

At least one AP is paying 1% [about $13] back of spot for generic gold bars and selling at $12 over [to dealers].

MsMorrisine

Generic bars' spread can really suck. I've gotten back of spot, too.

Justacommeman

Yes. Edited

BAJJERFAN

@OPA said:

@rawteam1 said:

@OPA said:

@rawteam1 said:

@Justacommeman said:
I've never had a reputable dealer ever buy at less then spot for gold. Everyone I've ever done business with has had a $40 spread. $0/$40, $10/$50 or $20/$60 depending on the market.

mark

Lol, I know the other posters have no idea, but you??? Lol, one of the best if not the best dealers in the country bar none, routinely pay under spot for gold, in fact sadly you have referred them on these boards..., amazing...

Name two of those "best" dealers that pay under spot for gold coins and links to your assessment. I want to make sure to delete them off my list.

The very fact that nowhere did I say/post anything about 2, two, or 2,two is why I ignore most everyone here... lol...

Sounds to me, your posts are full of hot air instead of facts.

No rebuttal from rawteam1?

BAJJERFAN

@MsMorrisine said:
Generic bars' spread can really suck. I've gotten back of spot, too.

If you expect to get spot or better from bars and rounds, you'd best be looking to sell to the same clientele that a dealer/AP would sell to.