1964 special strike penny.
Togothree
Posts: 23 ✭
How many of them were made why they were made what they look like what makes them so special and how valuable are they.
-2
Comments
**First ** Since you somehow managed to find this site
Do a google search since it appears you have some coin interest. Why do you want to know about this?
What exactly are you asking not understand the coin in question. 1964 cents are nothing special in value .
I **think **your trying to describe a Proof coin which is struck with polished dies. worh $2.
If you look up 1964 special strike penny you will find the information about them. I have researched the information but Wonder if anybody else knows anything about them.
1964 SMS
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
This is probably what you are searching for
BHNC #203
@Togothree....Welcome aboard. This site may help.....https://www.pcgs.com/News/1964-Special-Mint-Set-Coins... Cheers, RickO
pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/3284
I posted a picture so you can see the coin if you would take a look and please tell me what you think
ah, the elusive 1964 special strik penny
That’s not one of them.
If you look up the description of the 1964 special strike penny you will see that is one of them. The way you can tell is look at the fingerprint below Liberty it has a full smooth surface that's satiny and not mirror like it has sharp Square rims and as you can see the color is quite different. I find it interesting that you could say with such certainty that this is not one of them when you know so little about the coins.
Chances are 99.99999999% that you are not going to find one in change. I do believe that they have all been accounted for. The picture you posted is not one of them.
Please read the credits below FredWeinberg's post. It is understood that this man is THE EXPERT on such coins. Please believe him. If he says it's not one of them then I'd believe that.
We are very lucky to have Fred participate on this forum.
bob
Why do you ask for opinions and advice if you are going to be defiant and dismissive?
Here you go....it is a real "special strike" cent and is worth thousands of dollars. Just don't sent it in to be graded since they don't know what it is.
< --- I never thought about putting a coin on my knee to photograph it!
< --- Oh no, it's extremely valuable and worthy of multiple submissions to each grading service!
The fact is they have not been all accounted for. It is also a fact that I did find one in change. It's okay with me if you don't know and you continue not to know. If you would take your time to look up the information you would know these things. It's been my experience that most so-called experts leave something to be desired. I can't even say I appreciate your input because he didn't take the time to do some research about something that you have no knowledge of you're giving me guesses I can guess myself I appreciate your time I know it's important to you you have a good day
There are no such critters documented -- except for the small groups of first-strike coins off new dies that were sent to the Smithsonian and the Mint Director. These are ALL within normal production coinage parameters - nothing specialty made.
Just send it on to PCGS and prove everyone wrong.
The 1964 special strike pennies are from special mint sets that were produced it's true there is no documentation that these coins exist they were very surprised when they were discovered they estimate that there were less than 50 of them made. They are very rare and not well-known not even by coin experts it's no surprise to me that you may not know of them. The same thing holds true for the 1927 special strike nickel the minutes on those is 5 most people have no idea that these types of coins exist. I just happened to be a little more knowledgeable then most people. Of course my knowledge is not cast in stone look the coins up for yourself and you'll see what I mean.
Ah ... another newb who asks for an opinion, doesn't like the answers, and then goes on to explain why everyone else is wrong.
But at least we aren't looking a glue residue any more! LOL
Good luck with your coin. It's not my area of expertise, but a few folks have responded who have forgotten more about coins than most people will ever learn. Like JBK wrote ... submit it and prove everyone wrong. You'll be the man (or woman)!
Just because you hear hoof beats doesn't mean it's Zebras.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
You really surprise me sometimes things that seem impossible turns out to be possible after all you can rest assure I will submit my coins and have them graded AZ certified the truth is no matter how much anybody knows we don't know everything there is to know about anything. Me I keep learning I wish you peace and love may all your days be filled with light and laughter
@Togothree Why don't you take the time and do a search here on the forum for "1964 SMS". There are a ton of topics about them over the years here.
Many of us here like @FredWeinberg have known about them for several years and we have done our research on them including myself. Sorry you don't like our answers but if you don't believe us send it in to get graded at PCGS and watch it come back as a regular circulation strike. If it does are you going to say the grading company is wrong too??
No I will not. And you can be right if you choose to it's okay with me. I have the coin in hand so I can see it much better than you can. And you can believe I've done a lot of research on this coin so I know what I have come on dude no one knows everything smile and be happy.
If you know so much about these through your "research", then why did you ask the question that I quoted you on in your original post? If you know so much why come here ask questions and then refute the answers of the others here. Reminds me of another newbie just a little while back that insisted there were 1964 D SMS coins as well. That newbie just wanted to start trouble.
Here we go again. "Palm slap on head" This will be the last time we hear from the OP, If he does indeed submit.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
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Why does this happen every week? Please, next time someone asks a dumb question like this, no one respond.
Sorry, but it's not.
Kind regards,
George
Here's a link to a real 1964 SMS / Special Strike Lincoln cent certified MS68 PCGS. I am an expert in these coins. Note the differences from your cent.
https://vdbcoins.com/index.php/component/virtuemart/client-s-set-finest-known-1964-sms-set-pcgs/1c-1964-sms-lincoln-cent-ms68rd-pcgs-detail?Itemid=0
Kind regards,
George
If you truly believe it to be the elusive cent then, in your mind, it is one. Everyone here, including a top expert in the field, is wrong and you are right. Don't bother sending it for grading because they will also be wrong.
Next time save some grief and don't ask for opinions...just believe....
I'm not informed enough to make a decision on this coin but I definitely defer to those who are.
Throw that puppy up on e-Bay for 40 grand and see what happens.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
What did I say a couple weeks ago about the Christmas fruitcakes coming home to roost?
As that little girl said in the movie "Poltergeist"....."they're heeeerrrrre".
@Togothree The forum members here appreciate new member coming aboard. If you wished to share information you went about it the wrong way. How do you ask what something is and then basically in short telling me and other well respected people here that they do not know what they are talking about. You came across as just wanting to be a troll and start trouble. It is not a way to make friends and get any respect here and was hardly mature yourself. If it turns out that the cent you have is indeed an SMS 1964 Lincoln, then congrats to you. Until it is certified as such, I say it is not and the others that responded will too. Maybe in your world hardly anyone knows about the 64 SMS coins, but here many of us do. We have also done our research on them. Personally I would love to hear the results after you send it in, and will give a congrats if it is, but I won't rub it in if it is not.
Huh?
There is absolutely NOTHING special about your incorrectly labeled 1964 Special Strick.
Did you even bother to explore the links provided top you? If not, then DO SO.
The name is LEE!
Morgan dollar I'm not concerned about your knowledge that's yours. I know what I read and I know what I understand so I'm okay either way it go I just thought you guys would find it interesting if you wasn't aware of of those coins the truth is I don't have any friends and most of the people that I met I wouldn't want to be friends with I'm not saying this to offend you or anyone else it's just the fact in my life. I can disagree with you all day long and still be respectful and I have never gained up on anyone in my life I think that's cowardly. I won't be bothering you guys anymore because the truth is I do have more knowledge about coins then the greater majority of people I've ever met in my life including those so-called experts so you have a nice day man . I put into practice the things that I think are good and beautiful and right that's why I didn't go off on anybody. I'm not going to get my coin graded right away because I'm not in need but when I do I'll be sure and get back and let you know the true outcome I'm very confident. peace and love bye.
No comment.
The name is LEE!
You don't seem to understand.
Some of the folks on these boards ARE experts and have been around for a VERY LONG TIME. Some even own the 1964 SMS Lincolns, Jeffersons, Roosevelts, Washingtons, and Kennedy's.
They, along with a LOT of other folks have answered this exact question many, many times and often get rebuked as "not knowing what they are talking about".
Additionally, you're not the first to pop in with a question that you feel you already know the answer too and it almost appears as if you're primary intent in not in learning or sharing as much as it is in attempting to make folks look like fools.
You are not the first and I expect that you'll not be the last.
Some come, ask, doubt, whine, cuss, get booted, then sign up under another email address to continue the assault.
@FredWeinberg IS an Expert and has been for many. many years.
@giorgio11 IS an Expert and has been so for many, many years. He has paid thousands of dollars for these coins when they are authentic.
It's the wise thing to listen to them.
Of course, it's obvious at this point in time that you will not and you "may or maynot" submit this piece for grading at which point you "may or may not" report the results of the submission.
We've played this game before and it usually doesn't end well for the "First Time Expert" seeking opinions when s/he already has formed an opinion and is now just wanting to argue about it presenting the results of their somewhat inept "evidence".
Good Luck and be SURE to post the results. You might want to consider "Next Day Grading", that way, you'll get it back within a week.
The name is LEE!
I vote for someone with with a new username playing some games on this one.
@19Lyds aka Lee thanks for the endorsement. And of course Fred Weinberg, Rick Snow, John Dannreuther, HRH David Hall, David Lange, and some others who populate these boards (and some who do not, to my knowledge) are experts in this area as well.
Roger Burdette thinks these coins are "within normal striking parameters," in the process (perhaps unintentionally) disrespecting all of the other numismatists named here, but we have agreed to disagree. I think the unusual amount of die polishing lines seen on all coins as well as the exceptional strikes single them out. Jess Lipka thought correctly that they were distinctive to the point that they could be "seen across the room" when they surfaced in those Stack's auctions circa 1991 *not 1993 as usually stated* -1995, shortly after the deaths of Eva Adams (in 1991) and Lester Merkin (in 1992).
ATS when this subject came up, I pointed out to him (Roger) that Mr. Market obviously disagrees with him. And the sale of the finest known complete "set" cent-half dollar for $151,200 to a private collector (facilitated by me from David Schweitz) remains an important milepost in the story of these coins. Most of the true 1964 SMS coins sell privately, and that has continued to be the case over the last several years.
Because I have bought and sold so many of these coins, I get calls pretty frequently from "these kinds of people." Usually they have an ordinary 1964 proof set or mint set, or an Accented Hair Kennedy or some such, and many of them (which would apparently include the OP here) cannot distinguish between "characteristics" and "diagnostics." Note that somehow the "fingerprint" (which was on the obverse of my now-sold Kennedy half), which is a characteristic of one particular coin, is now considered a "diagnostic" by the OP ... who also claims he has done "much original research" but his very first post belies all of that claim.
BTW, although I apparently get no credit for it at PCGS, I was the very first cataloger/numismatist to describe the "dangling 4" diagnostic of all (but one) of the true 1964 SMS Kennedy halves. But all of them have the incredible sharp strikes and heavy die polishing marks zigzagging throughout both sides. JD has said to me privately that "they took business strike dies and roughed them up and struck them like proofs." (JD, if my paraphrase is incorrect, please straighten it out.)
As an example, see this MS68 PCGS 1964 SMS half dollar www.ha.com/1124*2929
As this was one of the first (but not the first) 1964 SMS Kennedy halves I got to examine at length, I made extensive die notes on it. Here they are in their entirety, and you can see that it was a learning process for me ... This is verbatim from 2009, my notes I made while I was cataloging this particular coin for Heritage (obviously today I might not consider all of these things in exactly the same light, but it does indicate the depth of my study of every true 1964 SMS coin that I came across):
==========================================================================================
Normal Hair (non-Accented Hair; the Accented Hair was only used on proof coins) type
—Extensive die polishing visible with 16x loupe.
—GR monogram appears doubled on downstroke of G.
—Extensive group of ~22 bright die polish lines at rim just below I, roughly parallel, running E-W from just inside rim to about two-thirds of the way into the field before the nose.
—Just below but still above L, maybe 15 slightly longer die polish lines are not quite as heavy or bright, running slightly WSW-ENE.
—Crisscrossing die lines above hair between ER. Most run diag. slightly NW-SE, but some few intersect and run SW-NE.
—Similar effect between RT, intersecting die lines in two directions. One group runs radially to rim from hair (maybe 20 lines), but an intersecting longer group of fewer lines (maybe 5) runs due NW-SE.
—From rear of head into field around Y: Another bright extensive group of die polish lines running due E to ENE, another group running due E, a third group running definitely NW-SE. One pair of these lines intersects and makes a sharp V shape in field about one-third from hair/two-thirds from rim and one-third above Y/two-thirds below T.
—In field below neck and around WE TRUST, many die lines prominent, running consistently SW-NE. (But some due west to east lines noted in field between and just above 96.
—Possible obv. die marker (found with microscope): Tiny gray toned-over raised lump of metal in field due N of r. serif of T. Lump shaped like an upside-down exclamation point. Probably in the planchet rather than the die.
—DIE MARKER!!! Also found with microscope, but clearly visible with 16x loupe. Wispy die crack on left upright of 1, about three-quarters of the way up (one-quarter below flag), extending slightly NW out from under flag.
—DIE MARKER. Tiny teardrop-shaped (or apostrophe-shaped) lump of metal hanging down from underside of crosslet on 4.
—DIE MARKER. Less obvious, barely visible with 16x loupe. Die line in crook of 6 (inside flag, where top of loop joins). Raised die line almost vertical, 10% to right from junction (90% under flag) that joins the flag and outside top of loop.
—DIE MARKER. Tiny raised die line with slight curve (nearly straight) extending straight outward at right angle into field from near the top left serif of I in LIBERTY.
—Small shiny dotlike impression in field northwest of I(N)
Reverse GH1
Type One reverse, with a straight G in the FS designer's initials and breaks in rays 11-13 (counting from the left) where they meet stars
—FG initials somewhat fuzzy, no apparent serifs. ODV-001 style reverse, Straight FG, Broken Rays reverse.
—Extremely sharp strike. "Four points." Look at the sharp tip where the triangular shield comes to its lower point. There are also three sharp lower points just below, apparently eagle feathers. Most of this is mushy at best on even high-grade regular 1964 business strikes.
—Lots of near-vertical die polish lines in three-cornered area between designer's initials and where wing and tailfeathers meet body.
—Prominent NW-SE die polish lines between A, L in HALF.
—Shelf doubling visible at letter bottoms UNI.
—Pair of prominent parallel die polish lines just to right of E(S) that touch top serif at its lower point.
—Prominent die polish lines from right side of last S in STATES that just touches top of S in parallel fashion and lightly intersects the bottom loop of S just inward from its rightmost point.
—Top of all A's slant upward from left to right, with tiny extra tips of metal. Interesting.
—two parallel die polish lines extend downward at 45-degree angle from left bottom serif of first T in STATES.
—Die polish line extending diagonally downward from middle serif of F in OF to left side of A(MERICA) about where the crossbar of A would intersect if carried through.
And now I shall once again have nothing further to say. The people who believe in these do, and those who don't, don't. I don't need to change anyone's mind, as it has been quite profitable and fascinating to study and deal in these coins regardless.
Kind regards,
George
@giorgio11.... Thank you for that detailed presentation..... Highly informative and a pleasure to read such detail observed first hand. Cheers, RickO
I know who this person is, it's @fee13
Has the same attitude when you tell her/him their "special" coins are not
Everything but the profanity (for now).
On further consideration (and after going to church) I've decided to post some of the diagnostics for the 1964 SMS cents, as a courtesy not only to the OP but to others who might find the information useful.
pcgs.com/Cert/18788695
This is a SP65 Red PCGS cent that I placed privately along with a 1964 SMS quarter in 2013. The TrueView-style photo is not that great ... but it's what I've got. It gives some idea, however. I had the advantage, again, of examining it at length and in person. As before, the prominent die polishing lines (but almost exclusively vertical on the obverse) are a key diagnostic, as are their incredibly sharp strikes. (When was the last time you saw Full Steps on a 1964 nonproof Lincoln?)
Die notes for 18788695 (unedited, from 2013):
====================================================================================
Nice luster on both sides. Obverse is a mix of gold, tan, light purple, rose. Stripes of rose and gold on coat. Carbon flecks above the date and out from the face. Two most prominent carbon dots are two parallel close to the rim down from last T in TRUST, one near west (above even with the bridge of the nose) from the top one, and one about southwest from the lower one. Roughly forming a four-sided trapezoid.
Reverse 18 full steps, or whatever. (My eyes won't focus that well to count them exactly -- particularly now, during allergy season.) Bit of carbon between L and U in PLURIBUS. A few flecks surround FG. Notice how sharp the strike is, of the 12 columns in the Lincoln Memorial there are extra "phantom columns" in pairs -- right of column 1, left of column 12, right of column 5, left of column 8.
Obverse
—DIE MARKER: Prominent vertical die polishing lines from rear of shoulder through TY and up to rim behind head
—Prominent vertical die polishing lines in obv. field on both sides of Lincoln.
—DIE MARKER: Prominent die crack runs along the obv. rim from top right corner of (I)N to space and above GO(D). It ends on this piece about even with the right side of O(D).
—DIE MARKER? Small raised oval lump on white part of collar about midway back from bowtie. Is this on the others?
Reverse
—DIE MARKER: Heavy, long die polishing line runs diagonally downward in the field from bottom of D to below (dot) UN to touch top of Lincoln Memorial at its midpoint.
—DIE MARKER: "Speared head" and "comet" die lines run from left side downward diagonally into Lincoln Memorial. One from bottom-right side of U through first two columns; one from bottom of N through first three columns; topmost "comet" die line runs from top-right corner of column 4 diagonally downward, spearing Lincoln's head (between columns 6 and 7) and onward to between columns 7 and 8.
=================================================================================
Die notes for ha.com/1124*1295 which I cataloged in 2009, 1964 SMS Lincoln cent SP65 Red PCGS:
Obverse
—Large patch of vertical die polishing in left field around LIBERTY, nearly up all the way to IN and down to Lincoln's shoulder.
—Same effect in right field, vertical die polishing from below date to TRUST.
Reverse
Full Steps on Lincoln Memorial! Eighteen steps from the bottom, all solid all the way across. The tiny Lincoln inside is sharp. Phenomenally well struck. All the curlicues on the building's ornamental top and the foliage on either side of the broad steps are incredibly sharp. Not much die polishing visible on reverse, unlike the obverse which shows heavy polishing lines. Correction: the die polishing on the reverse is more consistent, mostly running in one direction, due east-west, and therefore less noticeable. Bold under STATES, E PLURIBUS UNUM.
—Exception: two heavy diagonal die polishing lines appear, nearly parallel, in the right reverse field. The higher one runs from the right column to touch the lowest part of right base of last A in AMERICA, and thence to the rim. The lower one runs from slightly above the base of that column into the field above FG, but it stops slightly short of the rim.
—Exception: a patch of near-vertical die polish lines appears around FG, near the rim just above CENT and to slightly above FG.
—DIE MARKER? Small thick die line runs straight from A(MERICA) toward M but does not meet.
================================================================================
As a reminder to everyone, if you have a set of 1964 anything in Mint cellophane or in some aftermarket holder, you 99.999999% sure do NOT have a 1964 SMS coin. And please don't call me trying to convince me that you do. SEND IT IN to PCGS!!!!
The original 1964 SMS five-coin "sets" were housed in clear Snap-Lock plastic holders, no kind of official (or unofficial) Mint packaging. Beyond (pre- ) Lester Merkin, the source for them is uncertain.
By scouring all my sources (mostly other dealers) I have discovered a couple of complete "sets," all certified in PCGS slabs, but it has been years (four) since I have found a new one. Occasionally a singleton does turn up. I think practically all of the previous NGC-certified coins are crossed to PCGS by now. The only 1964 SMS coin I have available for sale is one MS68FS Jefferson (PCGS Pop 4/0), ex: Steve Strom collection, and that one is a consignment, although there are some other "display" coins (now owned by others) on our website.
The rarest 1964 SMS denominations from rarest to least rare are the Kennedy halves, the Jefferson nickels, the Lincoln cents, Washington quarters, and then Roosevelt dimes. I think there are only 12 or 13 halves while there might be 30 Roosevelt dimes. Why there are more of one denomination than another I cannot say with any certainty.
Kind regards,
George
We should all agree not to answer these "what happened to this penny" or "is this the ultra rare cent I found in change" especially if they have less than 100 posts. There seems to be a pattern with these posts.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Absolutely!
Man up! Send this special coin to PCGS for grading.
Then report back here on the outcome.
What do you have to lose?
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
On my phone and I left my thumbs at home so this will be short.
From what Roger said, I've often wondered if these 1964 SMS coins weren't intended for the Smithsonian? The only way to tell would be to examine the Smithsonian coins.
Coin World examined some but they were 1968-D's and we KNOW that the US Mint had a special arrangement with the Smithsonian to produce "Special Handling Coins" as documented in the August 2013 Coin World Article. The Authors of the article took a lot of examples beck to NGC for Grading and of all the Kennedy's, only 1 was a 1964. BUT, they did not include a photograph of that particular coin.
The graded pieces were put on display at one of the 2013 World of Money Shows but I could not attend, otherwise, I'd have examined the 1964 for the specifics that denote one of the SMS Coins. Namely the doubling AND that little nub that appears on the "4" in the date.
One of the great numismatic mysteries which, under proper supervision, could very well be solved.
PS-Back Home and on my Lap Top.
The name is LEE!
I do not agree.
Responding to new users helps keep the board alive AND increases interest in numismatics.
However, if the new user then claims to be an expert while the rest of us are idiots, then ignore them.
By all outwards appearances, this poster was setting a trap. Trolling, if you will, to get answers to naive questions that s/he already believed they had the answers to.
Thus user is not the first to use this tactic on their road to fame and glory in the numismatic world and s/he wan't be the last. BUT, folks have to at least give them a chance.
The name is LEE!
I agree with Lee..... I will definitely respond to these questions... Up to the point that the poster becomes abusive and cocky..... and, if that happens, I would hope the forum moderator(s) would take the appropriate steps. Cheers, RickO