@Insider2 said: @TommyType suggested: (And to be overly technical...I think the actual grade, if anyone actually handed one out, would be Basal 0, or B0(?))
Actually not. Basal State is a "1". IMO, we shouldn't have Basal State "0" also. Too confusing for the Registry Set.
I still like W-0. In the case of your example above: W-0 "details," holed.
Right you are. With a little research, I find that 0 and Poor didn't exist in the original Sheldon Scale. It was "Basal 1". I guess since nobody knew what "Basal" meant, "Poor" was deemed a better term.
@KollectorKing said:
I'm still holding my breath to see examples of (op) "pay more for a PCGS G6 then (sic) PCGS MS62-63's fetch?"
On a hunch, I checked CoinFacts for 1922 Peace Dollars.
Price guide:
P-01: $50
MS-62: $42
And they show two auction examples for P-01 coins over $132 this year. (2011 shows one at $36....so the P-01 collectors are probably doing better than me. )
Thanks for the info., but I believe the op was talking about actual transaction (s).
@KollectorKing said:
I'm still holding my breath to see examples of (op) "pay more for a PCGS G6 then (sic) PCGS MS62-63's fetch?"
On a hunch, I checked CoinFacts for 1922 Peace Dollars.
Price guide:
P-01: $50
MS-62: $42
And they show two auction examples for P-01 coins over $132 this year. (2011 shows one at $36....so the P-01 collectors are probably doing better than me. )
Thanks for the info., but I believe the op was talking about actual transaction (s).
read the whole post. TWO AUCTION EXAMPLES OVER $132 this year.
On behalf of the OP and the entire board, we accept your apology
@KollectorKing said:
I'm still holding my breath to see examples of (op) "pay more for a PCGS G6 then (sic) PCGS MS62-63's fetch?"
On a hunch, I checked CoinFacts for 1922 Peace Dollars.
Price guide:
P-01: $50
MS-62: $42
And they show two auction examples for P-01 coins over $132 this year. (2011 shows one at $36....so the P-01 collectors are probably doing better than me. )
Thanks for the info., but I believe the op was talking about actual transaction (s).
read the whole post. TWO AUCTION EXAMPLES OVER $132 this year.
On behalf of the OP and the entire board, we accept your apology
PCGS- for whatever reason- will award the FA2 grade way before 'honoring' a coin with a PO1.
It's a good time to collect coins as more and more seasoned collectors take on the attitude of collecting what you want/like. It could be Moonlight Mint products or lowball or what have you. A great time to be in this market!
Personally, I think it's stupid but I also believe that people collecting what they WANT to collect, and at prices they, personally, can afford, is ok, and their business, not mine.
Whether it's plastic, labels, toning, or lowest of low grades that gives the premium, that's other people's business, not mine.
And, I CAN actually understand the fad, to some extent. When people got priced out of high grades, or just couldn't find them as too scarce, but they still wanted to collect and have fun, they turned to super low grades. Not a ton of those holdered, so there is a hunt job in there. Some like that.
As a lover of coin design, for a long time, I was only willing to consider collecting uncirculated pieces, since, to me, circulation wear equates to the absence of design. One night while trolling Ebay, I came across a smooth, nearly flat 1834 $5.00 gold, which I bought on a whim. Once I had the coin in hand, it really began to work its charms on me! I came to consider how when a coin is newly made and in perfect condition it has potential - but as a coin wears down, evenly and smoothly, to within a hair of loosing its very identity, but without otherwise being damaged, that potential is fulfilled. Next to the pristine coins in my collection, this coin asserted itself like a defiant abstract painting in a room full of realistic canvases depicting traditional figures and landscapes. Perhaps for some collecting lowball coins is about the registry, and for some perhaps it is about the thrill of hunting elusive coins, but for me, it was purely about appreciating coins in a different, unexpected way.
This was my 1834 Classic Head FR-2 that was stolen last month - I'd really, really love to find another:
@Insider2 said:
My guess is that it's a copycat thing. We had a dealer in my city who took worn junk and plugged a Whitman Type set folder in the 1960's! After a while, we even looked for stuff to help him out. Then another dealer started sort of a friendly competition. PO-1 coins that are not damaged or dumped it the melt bucket are hard to find. I've never even heard of a PO-1 Trade dollar or Seated $. I'll bet one would bring an astonishing price.
Jump to the 1980's. I remember a nationally known numismatist starting to put low-grade coins in slabs after the TPGS's were around awhile. It's a fun thing. Then the prices started to go up. I pulled a Fair Peace dollar out of melt last week because I know someone is going to want it. I may even give it away in a contest here.
I did a complete Dansco 7070 that I called a "shaggy dog" set.
3c Nickel even had corrosion stalagmites. Plugged 59 s seated dollar, worst 20c I ever saw.
Filled the book with one hole left. Preference given to contemporary counterfeits. Kennedy was from a "cutout."
Still regret selling.
@TommyType said:
I accept that the P01 coins can be good looking. "There is quality in every grade".
But a question for the LowBall guys, which I think gets back to the OP's question:
Are they really better looking, and worth more money, than a F-12, or a VF-30, or a MS-62?? (No, I don't have any examples of that).
The question is more about turning the price guide values "upside-down", than it is questioning the coins or the grades....
"Better looking" is subjective. I will say that low ball coins are "extreme" looking and have their charms because of this. Often times, I'm more interested in a PO01 than a F through XF coin. I generally like PO01 or AU+.
Not sure why a lowball collector is viewed any different then Someone collecting all ms65, or vf35, or all stabbed by a single company...it's what they either view as attractive, Interesting or good value.... For the record, I prefer vf Morgan's over ms....MS have to many bag marks and other imperfections, where as vf can have nice even wear...don't expect all will agree.
Same things goes with toned versus untoned versus dirty coins...I started out liking more untoned, but have grown to,appreciate how natural toning can occur...
So I totally get why people choose to go after the lowball coins...not for me, but I get it!
@Broadstruck said:
Am I the only one that scratches his head trying to understand why someone would pay more for a PCGS G6 then PCGS MS62-63's fetch?
It's bizarre. It's sort of like the stamp market where a canceled/used version of early stamps is sometimes rarer and more valuable than a mint example. None of it makes sense to me either.
The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
@ms70 said:
The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor.
Is it fairly easy to tell accelerated wear? The following coin that was discussed here has some telling / unusual wear patterns but is it always easy to tell?
@Broadstruck said:
Am I the only one that scratches his head trying to understand why someone would pay more for a PCGS G6 then PCGS MS62-63's fetch?
It's bizarre. It's sort of like the stamp market where a canceled/used version of early stamps is sometimes rarer and more valuable than a mint example. None of it makes sense to me either.
I know what you're trying to say, but it's really not equivalent. Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects. The canceled versus mint issue is one of preference for stamps "that have done their duty" versus ones that have not. There is an issue of context and history. Sometimes, the cancel itself is rare and indicates something about the history of use, etc. Some people prefer mint never hinged only. Some people collect only postally used. But in either case, the better the state of preservation, the higher the price. It's never a case of lower state of preservation commanding a premium like with the low ball stuff.
@ms70 said:
The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor.
Is it fairly easy to tell accelerated wear? The following coin that was discussed here has some telling / unusual wear patterns but is it always easy to tell?
I think it is normally pretty easy. A tumbler creates a much different wear pattern than a circulated coin, for example.
@ms70 said: "The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor."
LOL. Please, please, will one of these "ex-perts" having that opinion please post an image of a "created low-ball."
Until then... it's just more "rock tumbler" fairy tales from the peanut gallery of wanna-be's.
Otherwise, please, please, someone post the title of that discussion for me to read to my children tonight.
@jmlanzaf posted: "Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects."
Unfortunately, IMO you have just changed the subject. Low ball coins are not damaged, they are worn = lower grade. Canceled stamps are also considered to be a lower grade. Discussing defects is "off-subject."
The rest of your comments about stamps are reasonable as I collect both stamps and coins.
I remember the time HRH posted on the boards offering to purchase a gold Indian ( don’t recall if it was a quarter or half eagle) which someone posted here on the board, in poor condition ( raw ). It got poo pooed too. .
It may have been used in the photograde app. Who knows why the game or fad is popular ? It’s fun ( I suspect). And whoever doesn’t have it is missing out on it.
I like circulated coins, they are more artifacts or relics of history than some put away in a drawer fresh off the press suivior. The tangible connection to history and the fact they were used in history is an essential part of the hobby for me. While low ball isn’t my cup of tea, I get it especially when it adds challenge to the hobby considering UNC have “been there done that” by plenty of others
@Insider2 said: @ms70 said: "The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor."
LOL. Please, please, will one of these "ex-perts" having that opinion please post an image of a "created low-ball."
Until then... it's just more "rock tumbler" fairy tales from the peanut gallery of wanna-be's.
Otherwise, please, please, someone post the title of that discussion for me to read to my children tonight.
Thanks in advance.
They've been posted here in the past. It's not an opinion, it's a statement based on actual posts here over the years. You can search for the bedtime story on your time.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Just as I thought! IT HAS TO BE TRUE because: "It's not an opinion, it's a statement based on actual posts here over the years."
I don't think I need to comment on many of the "actual posts" I read on coin forums, PS, or should I say BS as IMO this is one of them.
Anyone here that doubts me care to think about the tumbling medium, how long it takes, what the surface of the piece would look like, and the need to tone it to the "natural" color found on a basal state piece? SHOW ME THE COIN!
ROTFL so hard I puke.
@Insider2 said: @jmlanzaf posted: "Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects."
Unfortunately, IMO you have just changed the subject. Low ball coins are not damaged, they are worn = lower grade. Canceled stamps are also considered to be a lower grade. Discussing defects is "off-subject."
The rest of your comments about stamps are reasonable as I collect both stamps and coins.
@Insider2 said: @jmlanzaf posted: "Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects."
Unfortunately, IMO you have just changed the subject. Low ball coins are not damaged, they are worn = lower grade. Canceled stamps are also considered to be a lower grade. Discussing defects is "off-subject."
The rest of your comments about stamps are reasonable as I collect both stamps and coins.
Disagree, a rub on a stamp would be a defect.
LOL. Of course it would - just like a pulled proof. Read our posts again. Low ball coins are not damaged.Stamps cancelled with ink rather than grills, etc. are also not damaged! You are the poster who brought "damaged" into this discussion and confused damage with normal wear from use. Our words are important for communication.
@Insider2 said: @jmlanzaf posted: "Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects."
Unfortunately, IMO you have just changed the subject. Low ball coins are not damaged, they are worn = lower grade. Canceled stamps are also considered to be a lower grade. Discussing defects is "off-subject."
The rest of your comments about stamps are reasonable as I collect both stamps and coins.
Disagree, a rub on a stamp would be a defect.
LOL. Of course it would - just like a pulled proof. Read our posts again. Low ball coins are not damaged.Stamps cancelled with ink rather than grills, etc. are also not damaged! You are the poster who brought "damaged" into this discussion and confused damage with normal wear from use. Our words are important for communication.
Still disagree. My point, to the original poster, is that you cannot compare the used stamp or even a worn stamp to the coin issue. For a stamp it is either damage or simply use and not equivalent to a "low ball" coin.
Although, since you want to be difficult, I'll go even further and argue that coin wear is a form of damage. I mean, pistons in a car naturally wear from friction. Such wear is considered damage even though it arises from normal use. Numismatic distinction between "wear" and "damage" is artificial.
So there you go...now you have something to complain about.
Oh my, I'm not complaining I'm just really confused!
Let me quote part of your latest post: "For a stamp it is either damage or simply use and not equivalent to a "low ball" coin. Yet AFAIK, a coin became a "low ball" by simply use.
Next, you wish to add that low grade coins are actually damaged. At first, I suspected you must be a very knowledgeable auto mechanic by using an example of piston wear to make a point. Unfortunately, this is also misinformation. That's because the PISTON RINGS get worn and not the pistons.
Nevertheless, I'm going to suggest that you contact all the TPGS's to let them know that in your opinion every coin they grade below "Mint State" should be in a "details" holder as they are all worn = damaged. I'll bet someone there can explain things much better than I can.
It's easy. Forget the low-ball collectors. Let's think dealers. You buy a bunch of junk silver at melt. There is a PO-1 silver dollar (pocket pieces?) in the lot. What should you do, sent it in using a $10/per coin special offer so you can sell it for $$$ or pass it on to a refinery or the next guy on the cheap?
I have one in for grading now that I'm going to use for a contest gift when it comes back.
@Insider2 said:
Oh my, I'm not complaining I'm just really confused!
Let me quote part of your latest post: "For a stamp it is either damage or simply use and not equivalent to a "low ball" coin. Yet AFAIK, a coin became a "low ball" by simply use.
Next, you wish to add that low grade coins are actually damaged. At first, I suspected you must be a very knowledgeable auto mechanic by using an example of piston wear to make a point. Unfortunately, this is also misinformation. That's because the PISTON RINGS get worn and not the pistons.
Nevertheless, I'm going to suggest that you contact all the TPGS's to let them know that in your opinion every coin they grade below "Mint State" should be in a "details" holder as they are all worn = damaged. I'll bet someone there can explain things much better than I can.
Use of a stanp does not entail wear.
ALL parts of a piston system wear.
That coin people choose not to call the natural grinding down of design elements to be damage is their peculiarity. What do you call it when a piece of metal loses structural elements, structural detail, and actual weight of metal? You call it damage. Unless it's a coin, then it's just wear.
You want to play word games, I'll humor you. But you knew exactly what I meant about stamps but you just like to scorch.
Seems to be a rarity / plastic thing. Certain denominations - Silver dollars (commems especially) aren't found as often as near slicks. Some collectors will pay more because as a PO1-PO2 the coin is scarcer than an MS62-63.
If collectors are willing to participate in registry sets on the high end, why not the low end too?
@divecchia said:
On the PSA side we say the registry is a powerful drug. I imagine it's the same on the PCGS side when you need to fill a slot because you're trying to do a complete run of grades.
Donato
Edited for grammar.
On the PSA side do they pay handsomely for a graded rectangle piece of barely discernible paper pulp?
I’d guess it’s kinda different over here.
What's crazy is I am back looking for coins I've owned in the past! I am still feverishly working on a lowball Ike set (two actually) and although PCGS still doesn't recognize the Kennedy half in their Low Ball registries, many collectors simply post to the regular set and take up last place positions within that registry (for example, the 1964- 1970 Kennedy short set: I am at #98 out of 100 sets).
Many people are obsessed with the concept of becoming #1 on the registries or failing that getting into the top 10. As Abraham Lincoln once said about the presidency, I once had “that taste in my mouth, a little,” and I did some stupid things for a short while to increase my standing on the NGC Registry. Then I came to my senses.
This low ball concept probably came into being for similar reasons. At first I imagine that some of these coins were worth little more than the grading fees. Then it took off. The coins are a bit hard to find because it is tough to local a very low grade coin that does not have some problem.
I guess I’d say, each to their own, but I avoid low grade coins like the plague. My attitude is if I can’t afford something that is at least half way decent (e.g. a very choice VG or Fine) I’m out. I’d rather have the hole in my set than an ultra expensive eyesore.
You can get the same thrill about “the coin has gone through many hands” concept from a Fine or VF in my opinion. At least you have a coin that has the look of a credible collectors’ item.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I guess the trick is to get it to that condition without a rim ding placing it into a details holder. Scratches will wear out, but rim damage is forever. Not my thing anyway.
Comments
Right you are. With a little research, I find that 0 and Poor didn't exist in the original Sheldon Scale. It was "Basal 1". I guess since nobody knew what "Basal" meant, "Poor" was deemed a better term.
Thanks for the info., but I believe the op was talking about actual transaction (s).
I’ve heard It said here before, anytime there is demand for something that “they” can make more of, the supply side will meet.
I have to think wear can be accelerated artificially in a way that looks acceptable, thus making paying premiums sort of sketchy, IMO.
read the whole post. TWO AUCTION EXAMPLES OVER $132 this year.
On behalf of the OP and the entire board, we accept your apology
Oops...apology from all of me.:(
PCGS- for whatever reason- will award the FA2 grade way before 'honoring' a coin with a PO1.
It's a good time to collect coins as more and more seasoned collectors take on the attitude of collecting what you want/like. It could be Moonlight Mint products or lowball or what have you. A great time to be in this market!
peacockcoins
Personally, I think it's stupid but I also believe that people collecting what they WANT to collect, and at prices they, personally, can afford, is ok, and their business, not mine.
Whether it's plastic, labels, toning, or lowest of low grades that gives the premium, that's other people's business, not mine.
And, I CAN actually understand the fad, to some extent. When people got priced out of high grades, or just couldn't find them as too scarce, but they still wanted to collect and have fun, they turned to super low grades. Not a ton of those holdered, so there is a hunt job in there. Some like that.
All I know is: It won't be me doing it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
As a lover of coin design, for a long time, I was only willing to consider collecting uncirculated pieces, since, to me, circulation wear equates to the absence of design. One night while trolling Ebay, I came across a smooth, nearly flat 1834 $5.00 gold, which I bought on a whim. Once I had the coin in hand, it really began to work its charms on me! I came to consider how when a coin is newly made and in perfect condition it has potential - but as a coin wears down, evenly and smoothly, to within a hair of loosing its very identity, but without otherwise being damaged, that potential is fulfilled. Next to the pristine coins in my collection, this coin asserted itself like a defiant abstract painting in a room full of realistic canvases depicting traditional figures and landscapes. Perhaps for some collecting lowball coins is about the registry, and for some perhaps it is about the thrill of hunting elusive coins, but for me, it was purely about appreciating coins in a different, unexpected way.
This was my 1834 Classic Head FR-2 that was stolen last month - I'd really, really love to find another:
>>>My Collection
Take just about any clad example out there!
I did a complete Dansco 7070 that I called a "shaggy dog" set.
3c Nickel even had corrosion stalagmites. Plugged 59 s seated dollar, worst 20c I ever saw.
Filled the book with one hole left. Preference given to contemporary counterfeits. Kennedy was from a "cutout."
Still regret selling.
Here's a Kennedy for your 7070
Lafayette Grading Set
"Better looking" is subjective. I will say that low ball coins are "extreme" looking and have their charms because of this. Often times, I'm more interested in a PO01 than a F through XF coin. I generally like PO01 or AU+.
Not sure why a lowball collector is viewed any different then Someone collecting all ms65, or vf35, or all stabbed by a single company...it's what they either view as attractive, Interesting or good value.... For the record, I prefer vf Morgan's over ms....MS have to many bag marks and other imperfections, where as vf can have nice even wear...don't expect all will agree.
Same things goes with toned versus untoned versus dirty coins...I started out liking more untoned, but have grown to,appreciate how natural toning can occur...
So I totally get why people choose to go after the lowball coins...not for me, but I get it!
It's bizarre. It's sort of like the stamp market where a canceled/used version of early stamps is sometimes rarer and more valuable than a mint example. None of it makes sense to me either.
The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Is it fairly easy to tell accelerated wear? The following coin that was discussed here has some telling / unusual wear patterns but is it always easy to tell?
I know what you're trying to say, but it's really not equivalent. Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects. The canceled versus mint issue is one of preference for stamps "that have done their duty" versus ones that have not. There is an issue of context and history. Sometimes, the cancel itself is rare and indicates something about the history of use, etc. Some people prefer mint never hinged only. Some people collect only postally used. But in either case, the better the state of preservation, the higher the price. It's never a case of lower state of preservation commanding a premium like with the low ball stuff.
I think it is normally pretty easy. A tumbler creates a much different wear pattern than a circulated coin, for example.
@ms70 said: "The thing that I find annoying about the lowball game is when the coins are "created" by accelerated wear using various means. It's no secret and has been discussed here before. Those who do this are coin doctors as much as any other coin doctor."
LOL. Please, please, will one of these "ex-perts" having that opinion please post an image of a "created low-ball."
Until then... it's just more "rock tumbler" fairy tales from the peanut gallery of wanna-be's.
Otherwise, please, please, someone post the title of that discussion for me to read to my children tonight.
Thanks in advance.
@jmlanzaf posted: "Stamp people will never pay more for a stamp with defects."
Unfortunately, IMO you have just changed the subject. Low ball coins are not damaged, they are worn = lower grade. Canceled stamps are also considered to be a lower grade. Discussing defects is "off-subject."
The rest of your comments about stamps are reasonable as I collect both stamps and coins.
I remember the time HRH posted on the boards offering to purchase a gold Indian ( don’t recall if it was a quarter or half eagle) which someone posted here on the board, in poor condition ( raw ). It got poo pooed too. .
It may have been used in the photograde app. Who knows why the game or fad is popular ? It’s fun ( I suspect). And whoever doesn’t have it is missing out on it.
I like circulated coins, they are more artifacts or relics of history than some put away in a drawer fresh off the press suivior. The tangible connection to history and the fact they were used in history is an essential part of the hobby for me. While low ball isn’t my cup of tea, I get it especially when it adds challenge to the hobby considering UNC have “been there done that” by plenty of others
History filled low balls
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Nice coins and holder @Crypto!
It's nice to see circulated coins that were used for their intended purpose.
The coins in this Registry Set have also done their tour of duty. This isn't mine, but I've admired it before.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/low-ball-sets/low-ball-type-sets/gold-type-set-low-ball-1795-1933/alltimeset/32364
They've been posted here in the past. It's not an opinion, it's a statement based on actual posts here over the years. You can search for the bedtime story on your time.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Just as I thought! IT HAS TO BE TRUE because: "It's not an opinion, it's a statement based on actual posts here over the years."
I don't think I need to comment on many of the "actual posts" I read on coin forums,
PS, or should I say BS as IMO this is one of them.
Anyone here that doubts me care to think about the tumbling medium, how long it takes, what the surface of the piece would look like, and the need to tone it to the "natural" color found on a basal state piece? SHOW ME THE COIN!
ROTFL so hard I puke.
Disagree, a rub on a stamp would be a defect.
LOL. Of course it would - just like a pulled proof. Read our posts again. Low ball coins are not damaged. Stamps cancelled with ink rather than grills, etc. are also not damaged! You are the poster who brought "damaged" into this discussion and confused damage with normal wear from use. Our words are important for communication.
seems silly.
BHNC #203
Still disagree. My point, to the original poster, is that you cannot compare the used stamp or even a worn stamp to the coin issue. For a stamp it is either damage or simply use and not equivalent to a "low ball" coin.
Although, since you want to be difficult, I'll go even further and argue that coin wear is a form of damage. I mean, pistons in a car naturally wear from friction. Such wear is considered damage even though it arises from normal use. Numismatic distinction between "wear" and "damage" is artificial.
So there you go...now you have something to complain about.
Oh my, I'm not complaining I'm just really confused!
Let me quote part of your latest post: "For a stamp it is either damage or simply use and not equivalent to a "low ball" coin. Yet AFAIK, a coin became a "low ball" by simply use.
Next, you wish to add that low grade coins are actually damaged. At first, I suspected you must be a very knowledgeable auto mechanic by using an example of piston wear to make a point. Unfortunately, this is also misinformation. That's because the PISTON RINGS get worn and not the pistons.
Nevertheless, I'm going to suggest that you contact all the TPGS's to let them know that in your opinion every coin they grade below "Mint State" should be in a "details" holder as they are all worn = damaged. I'll bet someone there can explain things much better than I can.
I have given up trying figure out. It’s their hobby, their money.
@Cougar1978
It's easy. Forget the low-ball collectors. Let's think dealers. You buy a bunch of junk silver at melt. There is a PO-1 silver dollar (pocket pieces?) in the lot. What should you do, sent it in using a $10/per coin special offer so you can sell it for $$$ or pass it on to a refinery or the next guy on the cheap?
I have one in for grading now that I'm going to use for a contest gift when it comes back.
Use of a stanp does not entail wear.
ALL parts of a piston system wear.
That coin people choose not to call the natural grinding down of design elements to be damage is their peculiarity. What do you call it when a piece of metal loses structural elements, structural detail, and actual weight of metal? You call it damage. Unless it's a coin, then it's just wear.
You want to play word games, I'll humor you. But you knew exactly what I meant about stamps but you just like to scorch.
My car rusts. A coin tones.
Seems to be a rarity / plastic thing. Certain denominations - Silver dollars (commems especially) aren't found as often as near slicks. Some collectors will pay more because as a PO1-PO2 the coin is scarcer than an MS62-63.
If collectors are willing to participate in registry sets on the high end, why not the low end too?
I enjoyed your posts. Hopefully, other members will ignore the references to stamps, pistons,
and cars...BTW:
Most coins don't rust, they "corrode." That is not considered to be "wear" by any numismatist I know.
Coins oxidize leaving corrosion products, tarnish, or toning. That is not considered to be "wear" by any numismatist I know.
Some coins circulate, become worn and lose their design details. That is considered to be "WEAR" and not damage by any numismatist I know.
IMO, if we are going to post on a numismatic forum we should use the commonly understood numismatic jargon that "coin people" know.
1.2K, PM me
and I'll send you a copy of the ANA Summer Seminar handout on "numismatic terms." Ah, "rust" will not be on it. 
Check out the Chesapeake commemorative sets. The only complete MS and lowball sets by the same collector
Lafayette Grading Set
On the PSA side do they pay handsomely for a graded rectangle piece of barely discernible paper pulp?
I’d guess it’s kinda different over here.
I think original PCGS PO-01 “collectors” began around 2002.
I think I remember Braddick bringing it up...
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/432452#Comment_432452
I also collect cars, and, there is the P01 equivalent,
The rat rod
What's crazy is I am back looking for coins I've owned in the past! I am still feverishly working on a lowball Ike set (two actually) and although PCGS still doesn't recognize the Kennedy half in their Low Ball registries, many collectors simply post to the regular set and take up last place positions within that registry (for example, the 1964- 1970 Kennedy short set: I am at #98 out of 100 sets).
peacockcoins
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Rarity, I guess, in a weird, twisted way. The PCGS Population Report shows:
5,500 1881 Morgan dollars in PCGS MS63
8 1881 Morgan dollars in PCGS P01
Dave
Many people are obsessed with the concept of becoming #1 on the registries or failing that getting into the top 10. As Abraham Lincoln once said about the presidency, I once had “that taste in my mouth, a little,” and I did some stupid things for a short while to increase my standing on the NGC Registry. Then I came to my senses.
This low ball concept probably came into being for similar reasons. At first I imagine that some of these coins were worth little more than the grading fees. Then it took off. The coins are a bit hard to find because it is tough to local a very low grade coin that does not have some problem.
I guess I’d say, each to their own, but I avoid low grade coins like the plague. My attitude is if I can’t afford something that is at least half way decent (e.g. a very choice VG or Fine) I’m out. I’d rather have the hole in my set than an ultra expensive eyesore.
You can get the same thrill about “the coin has gone through many hands” concept from a Fine or VF in my opinion. At least you have a coin that has the look of a credible collectors’ item.
I guess the trick is to get it to that condition without a rim ding placing it into a details holder. Scratches will wear out, but rim damage is forever. Not my thing anyway.
My only lowball is a FR2 chain cent. I will happily trade it for a higher grade.
Lance.
This reminds me of the old adage “just because there is not many of something, that does not make it valuable.”
I’m sorry but I still don’t get it...No disrespect to those who do.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/