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Making sense of the Low Ball fad...
Broadstruck
Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭
Am I the only one that scratches his head trying to understand why someone would pay more for a PCGS G6 then PCGS MS62-63's fetch?
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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Wait, wait, wait........
I’m still stuck on understanding coin collecting in the first place. Making sense of human behavior is a pipe dream.
On the PSA side we say the registry is a powerful drug. I imagine it's the same on the PCGS side when you need to fill a slot because you're trying to do a complete run of grades.
Donato
Edited for grammar.
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
some people prefer coins that have been well circulated and passed through hundreds of hands. The PO01s are a challenge to identify what it is. A MS62 is a low end uncirculated, even though it may be the best known
beauty is in the eyes of the beholder
I guess I can understand if your hunting them down raw in the wild for cheap then tossing on a economy TPG submission rate as a fun project.
However severely paying up for ones already slabbed just does not compute.
There are apparently a lot of coins that are hard to find really worn. For example, you have to go all the way to Ecuador to find a coin like this:
Flight to Ecuador + $1 + PCGS fees = Priceless...
If you're on a budget and you're addicted to filling holes in the registry, then the Everyman set makes more sense to me.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
My guess is that it's a copycat thing. We had a dealer in my city who took worn junk and plugged a Whitman Type set folder in the 1960's! After a while, we even looked for stuff to help him out. Then another dealer started sort of a friendly competition. PO-1 coins that are not damaged or dumped it the melt bucket are hard to find. I've never even heard of a PO-1 Trade dollar or Seated $. I'll bet one would bring an astonishing price.
Jump to the 1980's. I remember a nationally known numismatist starting to put low-grade coins in slabs after the TPGS's were around awhile. It's a fun thing. Then the prices started to go up. I pulled a Fair Peace dollar out of melt last week because I know someone is going to want it. I may even give it away in a contest here.
I had a pocket piece 2000-P that was so much more worn that that coin, it makes it look like a VF.
I sold it raw, the guy who bought it from me sent it to ANACS for some reason.
I have been saving well-worn Memorials for years, well before the lowball craze.
I still think a 63-D (if memory serves) that I made in G04 is the lowest graded Memorial by many many grades.
Yes.....how pitiful is that lame claim to fame.....
Hey I've got a run of early cents no chain ( 1790's ) all in good-vg and all w/cac stickers
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
It's just the plastic game.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I've wondered myself too !!!
For many coins, a lowball coin may be more of a challenge to find than a low grade MS coin. A lot of collecting is about having fun and finding rare lowball coins is one way to do that for some.
Of note, lowball coins were popular and being discussed here before lowball Registry sets came into existence.
seems silly.
BHNC #203
The lowball collecting craze has been heavily promoted on this very forum. The internet and the availability of such forums allows previously obscure collecting specialties to gain exposure.
But...you had a triple rhyme!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
I'm putting together a PCGS Registry lowball Kennedy half set (1994- 1970 short set) and am having a dickens of a time finding many of them. It's a fun adventure and distraction.
peacockcoins
I can claim submission of many of the pop-1 and "hard to get" lowballs (like the 3CS' and modern Roosevelt dimes).
To each their own.
I don't collect them; I just enable other people's habits!
Supply and demand, IMO. Why "settle" for an Uncirculated coin when you can have one that was used by commerce for it's intended purpose. Problem free "lowball" coins are not as plentiful as MS coins.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
People will collect what they collect...........I'm OK with that
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
If you can find a few boxes of casino rolls you might have some success! I've had a few in my CRH times and never thought about the lowball collectors. Every roll had coins with completely worn edges with some coins barely identifiable then out of nowhere a silver coin would appear with reeded edges.
Many times it's much more of a challenge to find nice lowball coins and that is part of collecting. If I'm crazy for collecting lowball commems then you're crazy for spending millions on one coin.
Lafayette Grading Set
I have a lowball run of CC Morgans. It is a lot more challenging finding POo1 cc's than MS66's. Try it and you'll see that it's really a quite fun quest.
bob
@Broadstruck...I am in full agreement..... That being said, I have learned not to question the collector interest of other people.... Humans are strange critters and collect weird things... Beanie Babies, belly button lint, figurines and - at one time - Popsicle sticks. So, lowballs are not so strange ....
Cheers, RickO
It's hard to come up with anything more deep and meaningful than, "It's a registry thing".
Think about it: Would anyone bother with P01 coins if there were no Registry? Without the competition to be "best" in the category?
Now, I'm not throwing stones since I'm about to submit some NGC graded coins to PCGS for crossover. And as much as I try to convince myself otherwise....the only real reason is to put them in the PCGS registry. (And it's not like I'm competing to WIN! It's just a warm-fuzzy, hole filling exercise, really).
So, in short: If you open a lowball set in the registry, the desire to fill the holes will naturally come. Collectors are weird.
I currently have 10 PO01s and 3 FR02s. Most are PCGS, but a few are NGC. I do not have a registry set at PCGS or NGC, nor have I ever had one. I simply wanted to put together a set of my favorite coins in super low grade. It's mostly because I enjoy how they look, whether the coins were used in commerce or just carried as a pocket piece.
I'll also note that I've sold quite a few lowball coins over the years as my interests have changed and have always at least broken even when I've sold. I know that I've overpaid for some of the ones I have now, but I don't ever intend to sell them, so I'm not particularly worried about it! Hobbies should be fun, right?
I am a collector
And things, well things
They tend to accumulate
Please provide specific examples and or images.
Sorry I fail to understand what does the above comments have to do with OP'S comment & question.
I used to chase cheap. Now it chases me. All the while, it's just a matter of budget constraint.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I made this one last year from a $19 eBay pickup.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
From what I have seen, Barber dimes and quarters are the easiest lowball coins to find. That is a v. nice 50c.
Don't forget barb wire collectors as well. Years ago I remember seeing in the back of CW, in the misc. wanted to buy classified section, a buyer for such.
I've got a PCGS FR2 chain cent I will happily trade for a higher grade one.
Lance.
I bought this for almost nothing at a local B&M that is no longer around. It was included along with some other stuff in a submission and I sold it for a nice sum. I don't get the craze, but I'm happy to take advantage of it:
If you have to scratch your head over it, then x collecting is not for you, where x = lowball, variety, error, special label, slab generation. die marriage, modern, transit token, etc. It's good to know that people who do collect certain things are out there, though.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
@BryceM
4 berries to boot
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Honestly, it's no different than collecting "high ball" registry sets. It's the hunt. It's hole filling. It's ego. It's just low budget ego.
He or she is saying that they have an arbitrary collection. Not strictly a low-ball collection, but an equally arbitrary choice to collect the whole series in G/VG CAC.
The whole thing is quite absurd.
I mean, think about it. Once a new coin starts to wear it, it can never be "uncirculated " again. Gradeflation aside, a coin can never "improve" and shiw less wear.
But any coin, any coin at all across the spectrum of this universe, can reach the lowly grade of P-01.
All you need is time...
or a rock tumbler!
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
It obvious you don't do lowballs. I sold a PO01 for cash and trade worth well over $1,900 to a formite.
bob
Is there a grade lower than PO01?
Absolutely! We call them "WASHER-0"
Senator Blutarski's grade point average 0.00
And yes, my PHD in Numismatics is from Faber College
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Still cheaper than an MS68 of the same coin
I accept that the P01 coins can be good looking. "There is quality in every grade".
But a question for the LowBall guys, which I think gets back to the OP's question:
Are they really better looking, and worth more money, than a F-12, or a VF-30, or a MS-62?? (No, I don't have any examples of that).
The question is more about turning the price guide values "upside-down", than it is questioning the coins or the grades....
Washers have HOLES! Even P01 collectors would run from a hole!
(And to be overly technical...I think the actual grade, if anyone actually handed one out, would be Basal 0, or B0(?))
@TommyType suggested: (And to be overly technical...I think the actual grade, if anyone actually handed one out, would be Basal 0, or B0(?))
Actually not. Basal State is a "1". IMO, we shouldn't have Basal State "0" also. Too confusing for the Registry Set.
I still like W-0. In the case of your example above: W-0 "details," holed.
I'm still holding my breath to see examples of (op) "pay more for a PCGS G6 then (sic) PCGS MS62-63's fetch?"
On a hunch, I checked CoinFacts for 1922 Peace Dollars.
Price guide:
P-01: $50
MS-62: $42
And they show two auction examples for P-01 coins over $132 this year. (2011 shows one at $36....so the P-01 collectors are probably doing better than me.
)