How can you capture the color of a coin with a photo?
PennyPincher69
Posts: 12 ✭
I've been trying all day to get my camera to take the perfect picture of some of my coins but every guide I look up doesn't seem to help me capture the color and vibrancy of some of my coins. I'm just getting into coin collecting and wanted to sell a few so I can expand my collection but I can't seem to take the right pictures. I feel like throwing my camera in the lake. Below is my current photo set up along with a few pictures I took of one of my better colored coins. But none of the pictures capture the true color of the coins. Any advice?
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One thing to try is to change the color of the background. Makes a difference in how the camera sets color levels.
Could it be your lighting setup......shouldn’t it be more overhead and direct using LED or halogens with diffuser socks? Your second picture is nicely done but it appears that only a portion of the coin received direct lighting.
Light and the position of the light is key. White balance is important and some CAREFUL post-photography image editing to adjust contrast, hue, & saturation is sometimes needed. Some coins are difficult and copper is always a challenge for me.
Check out Mark Goodman’s book, Numismatic Photography and see how he positions lighting for various types of coins.
In general, no. The indirect lighting through the diffuser is the way to go.
The OP might try a light box as opposed to the single source illumination.
I capture the color using direct lighting with NO diffusers, lights placed right against the camera lens. As long as WB is measured, doesn't matter the type of light. For non-proofs this is the technique I got reading Goodman. For proofs, indirect is the way to go.
Direct lights vertical and right against the lens:
I just play around with the lighting angles. Most of the time the light comes in from about 11 o'clock. Canon G9 is used that I hold in hand. Nothing fancy at all when I take pictures as you will see. Not Pro Pictures but they serve the purpose that I need.
Lighting set up.
A couple of pictures that were just taken.
Ken
I am unable to offer any advice on coin photography. However, let me say, the pictures you posted look very good to me. Cheers, RickO
To really do the technique that you are working with, the coin really should be directly under the lens of the camera. The camera should be on a copy stand and the pane of glass has to have a special coating for all of this to really work. The pane of glass closest to the light is pretty pointless because it is not doing anything for you.
position of light sources. Requires experimenting.
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This is the first time I've heard about a special coating on the glass. Can you elaborate?
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please see below;
**Axial Lighting Setup **
Not written in stone, but works like a charm!!! Nobody ever said it was easy! it take some experimenting!
Axial lighting is a technique which is great for taking pictures of coins and small things.
In this setup, the light travels straight back and forth along the same axis as the direction of the camera lens. Also forensic laboratories use this setup for their photography. It can produce No shadow and high-contrast images with great details.
Here is the Axial Lighting Setup I use.
As shown ABOVE, it requires a flat and clear sheet of glass. Best about 3 or 4 mm thick. It is placed at a 45-degree angle to both the light source and the camera lens.
Most of the light shining on the glass passes right through. However, a good portion is reflected downward at the object. It works like a prism.
You can place a small dark object before the coin to protect it from direct light from the lighting source. It is also advisable to darken the room and switch off most or all other light sources to avoid stray reflections on the glass. With this method, the camera lens sees only the object from the top.
It is always recommended to use a black or very dark non reflective background. I have experimented with white and other color backgrounds and had some excellent results also.
Properly set up, there are no real shadows, just lighter and darker areas, dependent on the light angle, and surface and reflective characteristics of each area of the coin. Exposure, lens settings and white balance* settings need to be manually set and experimented with to suit your application, so the lightest spots would not wash out. This makes the coin appear darker than it looks in person, but the emphasis here is on detail, not shine.
Camera settings with axial lighting
If possible use a remote shutter release, a timed shutter release like self timer, or a camera-PC software as provided by Canon ,as sometimes your shutter speeds will be very slow, right down to 1 second and sometimes less... depending on the situation.
Here is where the Canon DSLR cameras shine. They have Software for mouse – shutter- monitor control on your computer setup. You adjust everything with your mouse. The software comes normally with the appropriate Canon camera. If not, just download it. Works like a charm.
I have tried the SW with my Canon G10 and it does not work. technology is too old.
other brands probably also have this SW by now. I know Nikon actually charged for it 4 years back.
Never use automatic settings for exposure etc.! Never use a flash ----NOT even a ring flash!!!!!! (unless you know exactly, and I mean exactly, what you are doing and WHY you wan to flash)
However, I do use the Automatic setting for the White balance ONLY at times, depending on my light source and other ambient light. Best Images I take when it is dark, with most / all lights from the ceiling and walls OFF.
Always set at least one of the two, speed or opening to manual, preferably both.
Both settings are adjustable with your mouse.
If you use an incandescent lamp, (best results) use either 60 or 75 watts warm white with a cheap reflector, but not more. Actually a candle will do it also.
Set your white balance setting to TUNGSTEN. If you use another light source set the white balance to the respective type or to automatic. If you use some kind of other light source, set the white balance accordingly! Canon SW lets you change the WB after the image is taken IF you take RAW images and your Photo Software allows that.
ISO setting 100, max 200.
Aperture setting anywhere between 5.6 and 11- experiment…your depth will change.. but you see it on the monitor. Totally adjustable and you see the results immediately on the monitor. MY setting is 8 and usually stays there unless I do macro close ups.
Speed: adjust as needed or fully auto setting.
Key here is the white balance setting. It needs some experimenting.
Ideal is if you can connect your camera directly to your computer and adjust everything on the monitor.
Modified Axial Lighting
You can also modify the appearance of a coin with small changes in the angle of the reflective glass, causing the light path to be slightly off-axis. Lift the glass a few degrees and see how the coins appearance and depth changes.
Even a small shift of the light off the primary lens axis reduces some of the detail, but it also restores the lustrous appearance of the coin.
Shooting a Dark Coin with Axial Lighting
An advantage of axial lighting is that it can increase the contrast in a dark coin. Dark coins, shot with common lighting can look like cheap crap, making it hard to see any detail. However, axial lighting with properly selected exposure can reveal much more... try it..you will be surprised.
Axial Lighting for Proof, PL and high luster Coins
The mirror finish of the fields makes them very difficult to shoot. Any type of light pointing at a mirrored surface at an angle will normally reflect away from the camera in the same angle it strikes the surface. All you normally get is black or dark areas around the raised satin-matt finished elements.
On proof coins you need to experiment a bit more. Changing the glass angle a bit will have some incredible results. Also, changing the angle the light hits the glass will have surprising results…
All my images are taken with a Canon Rebel Digital body and a Tamron 90mm macro lens.
Best results are with manual zoom on the lens, and all other settings also manual.
Cost of my setup without camera, lens and without the old enlarger is about $15 and a bit of time to screw it all together. You can probably find an old enlarger in a thrift or second hand store for about $25.
Instead of the enlarger (modified to hold the camera (btw, the threat on the camera bottom is 1/4" and any 1/4 " bolt will fit) a SOLID tripod will also do a nice job.
Remember, the lens should always be 90 degrees to the coins surface.
Good luck
PS: anyone who would like this as a email, please PM your email. Unfortunately **I have no Idea of how to post a complete **story with images here in color , so I had to piecemeal it together here.
Read. Experiment. Change things up. These are all direct lighting, but I did not use the same lights for each coin-
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The best photographer in terms of capturing color true to the in-hand look while also keeping the "glamour shot" quality of the photo is @blu62vette. I think he uses voodoo magic though.
Tom B is correct. and you will not be an expert over night.
I am reasonably happy with my results and did purposely not post any images. But often I take numerous shots to get to "reasonably happy".
You will also need a "reasonably good" photo SW. And here everyone has their own favorite I guess.
TomB,
which CAN coin is this? lets see the other side please
PennyPincher69, I like your middle picture. I would try elevating the back of your coin to put more angle on your camera and less angle on your light source.
Axial lighting works fine on raw coins but not on anything in slabs (in my experience, anyway). I have always used a gray card to set the white balance. the camera and the coin need to be parallel to each other. Axial light will show iridescent toning better than anything I know of, but it tends to exaggerate the intensity of the toning, which under ordinary circumstances may only be seen if the coin is tilted a certain way. My setup just uses the angled glass and a single frosted incandescent bulb in a gooseneck aimed at it. I place a small object on the table between the light and the coin to keep direct light off the coin's surface.
Hoard the keys.
Ditch the axial lighting unless you enjoy suffering. It's a corner case technique unnecessary for all but rare instances.
Get plenty of light alongside the camera, tall and vertical. Invest in a copystand and a good macro lens at least 100mm.
Lance.
I, too, always have to play around to get the correct look. Here are two that I just took sitting at my desk (by hand and not in my photo lab), and both coins look exactly like this in hand. One is the Cheerios cent and we all know what those look like and the other a silver dollar with light surface and heavier rim toning.
bob
@YQQ, the Canadian is a twenty-cent piece and the reverse is below-
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Try using tissue paper over the lights to difuse the light and make sure light is even. I think your pictures look better then mine. But I only use my iPhone a loop and homemade photobox. With that camera you should be able to catch the colors. Also warm the lights a while before taking photo and remove other light sources in the room.
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First, you might be capturing the color without realizing if your monitor isn't calibrated or has insufficient gamut to display the full color of your images.
Second, before putting the coin under the camera. Look at it under the lighting that you will use with one eye closed. When you see what you want in the picture, look at the coin's relationship to your eye and the lights, and duplicate that setup replacing your eye with the camera.
I have never bothered with axial lighting, although most stuff I photograph is slabbed, which makes axial lighting fairly useless.
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@PennyPincher69 @jafo50 @YQQ
Now that i have had time to get back and get a minute or two to make a response, here it goes. Axial lighting is the technique used and the coated glass that i speak of has an opaque mirror finish and not just a reflective finish like a regular piece of glass. Look at the picture provided and you can see a faint image of my hand behind the glass but yet the reflection of the ceiling fan from the mirrored surface is still strong similar to an actual mirror. A true mirror in hand will not allow you to see my hand behind it. This type of glass allows light to go though the glass and up into the camera so you can get an image and at the same time the mirrored finish of the glass allows light from the side to reflect down on to the subject.
Raw coins are easy to do, slabbed coins take more work to get it right due to the fact that the plastic slab also reflects light and bounces that light back up to the camera lens. The photo below was done with this axial lighting technique and was photographed through the current PCGS slab that it resides in.
I would just stick to direct lights. This was shot at my booth at the Baltimore show.
Thanks everyone I will experiment a little!
It’s in the angle. Photography is about reflection and imaging. You can’t capture color in one shot. I mean, by this; looking at subject from a different angle changes the perception and the reflection of light. I can wish you good luck or say “hire a pro” but it’s fun experimenting. So experiment.
I use a cell phone camera and earned a “you suck” award, because I really do.
I took this photo several times before settling on the one that looked like it does in hand.
Changing the background helped bring the color into balance.
Very interesting how most of us have their preferences based on our experience. Better yet, that we exchange our information with others openly.
I am waiting for Jeremy to chime in. His photography on the bay is simply super.
wondering what equipment , lenses etc, he is using.
TomB, that is one nice 20 cent coin. XF45? scarce in better grades...is what I read many times a day on the bay and..... am looking at a VG or only a G coin.
your is a extremely nice coin. thank you for posting.
Morgan $
I have never seen or heard of using milky glass as the prism glass. I have to try that very soon.
is it some specific glass, perhaps hard to find?
You are all right as far as slaps are concerned. But not 100%. I have taken great coin shots of slabs using axial. manual settings an manual lens will aid in getting great shots. Also u might have to change the prism glass angle.
KKathyl
you better make sure you use "cold" lamps only as your tissue paper does not like high temps.
Very interesting how most of us have their preferences based on our experience. Better yet, that we exchange our information with others openly.
I am waiting for Jeremy to chime in. His photography on the bay is simply super.
wondering what equipment , lenses etc, he is using. I believe he is "Airplanelieutenant" here on the forum.
Good luck with your experiments.
I would like to add that the only time I really use the Axial lighting technique is for photographing proofs with color. All other coins I photograph are done with over head lighting.
Great advice from a knowledgeable photographer. Lance is coaching me along. My use of a copystand and correct lighting, including white balance, has made a big improvement in repeat-ability of results, taking one picture instead of 20. Also, use of software like Lightroom and Photoshop really helps to bring out the colors that are visible to the naked eye, but don't show well in most photos.
Easy...I let someone else do it for me...since my imaging skills are off the deep end of "terrible".
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Great input and info from the more experianced (than I). Really reinvigorated me to redo/reevaluate
the foto"s I took last night of a side collection of coins I like to call "Men in Grey". Mostly odd colored Kennedy Halves and Washington quarters. A type of dull greyish to military green, including brown and black colorations.
Thanks so very much to everyone for this thread.
Darn. Forgot to mention I work with various lighting but I depend mostly on two led desk lamps both multi hinged, adjustable light intensity, one of which can be adjusted in ranges from fluorescent to daylight , while using a cell phone for all shots and a coin photo studio made of cut out plastic pie pans, clear on the bottom level and black pans on the top.
I had to be inventive.....For realz.
Maybe this does not count as a color but I have been experimenting with capturing “true” (liquid) silver. It is not as easy as you might think. I have found a LED macro ring light seems to work best on MS silver coins but tends to make silver Proof devices dark. Below is a shot of the reverse of a 1961 – D Franklin, my best effort thus far. (The dark areas near the rim are on the coin.)
I agree with those that suggest an overhead lighting scheme, preferrably with diffusers. My set up looks like this (without the camera) using a Kaiser RS1/RA1 copy stand with Ikea Jansjo lights with diffusers:
and importantly a tilt stand that was salvaged from a broken transit surveying instrument:
The tilt stand allows for you to get the light reflection off the coin to best show the color you are trying to capture.
I also use a screen capture program, Nikon Camera Control Pro 2, and manual focus to fine tune the shot.
OINK
Depending upon how fast your lens is (aperture. i.e. f/2.8 or less), I would use indirect sunlight and no flash. You will get the true color.
For really difficult coins, I send them to PCGS to get a TrueView photo.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Once you get it right, look out cause the shutter go bites HARD!! I enjoy imaging as it tends to be a hobby within a hobby.
My man Lance laid it out pretty good fur ya.
I don't know. But....whoever is taking the photos at Great Collections has got it down to a science. Never a disappointment. Especially today. That guy is GOOD!!!!
Really? Hmm.
Lance.
You can learn to take good to very good photos, but you can't take a perfect photo. The eye's light sensitivity is greater than the best camera lenses out there.
For example, even with a really nice camera and lense, last year, I was not able to get the bright yellows in pics of fall colors to come out quite right. Pretty much everything else was fine.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
O.k. Lance. You're the best. The work you do for Sheridan is unparalleled. YOU ARE THE BEST. But give the little people some credit. They try hard too.
P.S. You did something very special for me. You don't know what it was. You're a nice guy. I owe you. I really do. Thanks. And....I hope I spelled "unparalleled" correctly.
I was told using an empty milk jug, cut from the top, will work for a light difusser....it illuminates around the subject...
Lots of good advice. I've had similar issues taking photos of old copper. Sometimes the pictures were in no way representative of the actual coin. I found my biggest issue was my background color. Once that was taken care of, I worked with the lighting as others suggested. Still, it's a lot of trial and error. I hope to get some really top notch pictures...someday.
Old school way to capture color ..........
https://youtube.com/watch?v=N4ltLp30KVs
At the time, my grandson was 2 so I save his great artwork.
Here are more pics of the same coin.
If you had the coin in hand, you would understand the pics don't even come close.
It's a very gorgeous coin for the exception of the light scratch on the cheek and the steps aren't perfect either, oh well. Try, try again until I get it right.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection