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Anyone want to test their visual skill on this document?

RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited November 6, 2017 8:18PM in U.S. Coin Forum

The following page is one of a group sent to the US Mint by their purchasing agent in France. Letters relate to buying equipment for the new gold mints. Unfortunately, the paper was of poor quality and bleed-through was nearly universal. This image is enhanced in an attempt to separate the top surface of the page from the bottom, bleed-through, side.

:)

There are nine letters, 3-5 pages each. This one is typical.

Comments

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    TLeverageTLeverage Posts: 259 ✭✭✭

    Oh, no. I'm not getting tricked into summoning a _third _demon...

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    bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,348 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can see .........that I'm not going to be of any help.

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    BodinBodin Posts: 997 ✭✭✭

    First off, the main letter is backwards. I've flipped it and separated it into sections so its not so overwhelming.


    v
    v
    v
    v

    v
    v
    v
    v

    v
    v
    v
    v

    v
    v
    v
    v
    Then there's the middle section turned sideways.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017 8:40PM

    Actually, the blue in the middle is the address and rotated 90-degrees on the original. The blue at top and bottom are correct-reading and part of the same sheet side as the address. The reddish, is bleed-through and naturally a mirror image.

    Maybe one day I can get better digital copies. That should make transcription a lot easier.

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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This hurt my head.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mine too....these caused by bifocals to become trifocals, then fog over.

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    BodinBodin Posts: 997 ✭✭✭

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    SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps this might help, the results of some Photoshopping:

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
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    BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think FBI at Quantico would have their work cut out for them on this document. Good luck.


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017 11:37PM

    Here's my hasty/lame attempt.


    1. Address (rotated 90):
    JWA Pacquet xxxxx
    xxxx a New York
    -------
    R M Patterson Esq
    Director of the Mint
    of United States
    Philadelphia


    2. main page (red bleed-through, flip left to right):
    that is on the camerett wrapper in a patheloait
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    about the saminoir, I have had assistance from the
    artist to whom I have waited about all over txx in
    aealyst your opposite to finish the plate you refer to,
    without I would a can find the xxx without plates
    but this gives me no xxx Mr. Darcet
    gave me the address of the artist living 3 miles
    from here, who made the xxx of the most often
    ink as longer in the way of ther of the address
    an artist whom he xxx sample
    I Itest him the xxx the Samins
    in xxx there which xxx which they
    informed me at the xxx xxx
    s actual at not xxx xxx
    n saminoir having xxx
    the sum of 1000 pairs xxx
    it for sale with short xxx which
    ti making for 150 pairs to 200 pairs according to xxx
    that at the xxx Mint xxx
    paid xx a xxx
    of xxx
    xxx
    xxx
    xxx
    is xxx


    3. bottom of main page in blue:
    I am ignorant of all these matters of yourself
    land me for hand thing. You made task hand
    for then as for this. I gaxxx of xx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx


    4. top of main page in blue, upside down:
    Now(?) which xxx
    xxxx
    xxx the Mint xxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    packed you know as well as I can tell you that

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    jtlee321jtlee321 Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do you by chance have an image of the original without the enhancement? Sometimes it's easiest to start from the beginning.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yosclimber .....Well done.... I do not have the patience for that.... or the eyesight...Cheers, RickO

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017 2:04PM

    @jtlee321 said:
    Do you by chance have an image of the original without the enhancement? Sometimes it's easiest to start from the beginning.

    I'll retrieve the original and post it. The original paper color was off-white/cream, but the photographer did not set the correct color balance. (It might require reading several of these documents to tease out the contextual meaning of illegible words.)

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Original page image. See note, above.

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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017 7:16PM

    Thanks, this is an improvement for me.
    Here are the sections after a "color auto adjust" in the IrfanView image editor,
    with some edits to my previous transcription.


    1. Address
    JWA Pacquet Sincerely
    told xxx give a New York
    -------
    R M Patterson Esq
    Director of the Mint
    of United States
    Philadelphia


    2. Main
    that is on the camerett wrapper in a pasteboard
    xxxx
    xxxx take at the xxx
    xxxx certificate
    xxxx
    xxxx
    about the laminoir, I have had assistance from the
    artist to whom I have taled about all over time in
    a calm at your as paid to finish the plate you refer to,
    without success. I can find the Book without plates
    but this gives me no xxx the xxx Mr. Darcet
    gave me the address of the artist living 3 miles
    from here, who made the laminoir for the Mint. He
    ink as longer in the way of ther of the address
    an artist whom he xxx sample
    I Itest him the xxx the Lamins
    in xxx there which xxx which they
    informed me at the xxx xxx
    s actual at not xxx xxx the
    n laminoir having just been xxx cost
    the sum of 1000 francs. N xxx has purchasly
    lot for sale with short xxx which
    ti makes for 150 francs to 200 francs according to xxx
    that at the xxx Mint xxx
    paid xx a foot long, or with xxx
    of each am xxx I cannot xxx
    all I have hear xxx
    xxx
    xxx
    is xxx


    3. Bottom
    I am ignorant of all these matters if you shall
    send me a xxxtting. You made take Hand
    for then as xxx I have ignorance. I may often
    be mistaken xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx
    xxxx


    4. Top
    Now(?) which xxx would write me immediately
    xxxx
    xxx the Mint at Philadelphia xxx
    xxxx
    xxxx tell me if they have been well
    packed. You know as well as I can tell you that

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like chicken scratches until I focus in. I could not begin to decipher a complete sentence. Kudos to Bodin and Yosclimber. I think they're onto something.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect that with a high quality scan of the original, the bleed-through and top surface inks can be separated with a couple of very tightly limited RGB masks. Maybe one day I can get to Philadelphia and check these out.

    Yes -- getting anything usable out of this and similar pages is very difficult.

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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Small breakthrough:
    laminoir = rolling mill (for making planchets)
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/laminoir

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Might have been among the equipment ordered -- or maybe offered by the French agent?

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    BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Backroadjunkie -- Thanks! Another technique not mentioned in the SI article is geometric. Most handwriting is slanted left or right depending on the writer's handedness. Software can select and null all letterforms of one range of slating angles while preserving the balance of the image. I've seen samples of this and it can separate each side of a badly bled-through page. Unfortunately, I need a really good scan to start with.....

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    pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017 7:32AM

    Letter forensics, very interesting and well beyond me and my patience. I enjoyed the job done by @yosclimber, well done!
    BTW, have you climbed El Capitan?

    Paul
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    BackroadJunkieBackroadJunkie Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 8, 2017 9:00AM

    @RogerB said:
    Backroadjunkie -- Thanks! Another technique not mentioned in the SI article is geometric. Most handwriting is slanted left or right depending on the writer's handedness. Software can select and null all letterforms of one range of slating angles while preserving the balance of the image. I've seen samples of this and it can separate each side of a badly bled-through page. Unfortunately, I need a really good scan to start with.....

    I remember seeing a document something like what you posted before, but I was darned if I couldn't remember where. But I found the reference. It was Livingstone's diary! (Of the "Dr. Livingstone I presume" fame.) Check this pdf:

    Recovery of handwritten text from the diaries and papers of David Livingstone

    When he ran out of paper, he used newspaper and ink from local berries, which not only faded, but bled through the paper. It took years to figure out how to recover the text...

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very good article. The pseudocolor method was what I was trying, but the original in not of sufficient quality to permit much clarity.

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    yosclimberyosclimber Posts: 4,596 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017 12:57AM

    @pmac said:
    BTW, have you climbed El Capitan?

    Yes, I used to go up it on a regular basis in the late 1980s and 1990s; most recent time was 2009. Even climbed it with my wife one time. "It's a good one." :-)

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