NGC Fatty slabs with a gold CAC. How scarce?
Weiss
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What is your impression of their numbers?
I don't see them very often. Could it be that fatties were less prevalent than rattlers, so the base number is smaller? Could it be that they were more likely to be cracked and resubmitted? Maybe they just weren't as tightly graded as rattlers, so there are fewer gold CACs to begin with?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
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since eye-appeal is an integral part of a coin's grade and no-line fatties are known to tone the encapsulated coin I wonder how many of the remaining coins are considered "under-graded" as a result??? without access to condor101's NGC/PCGS generations maybe someone else can comment on the numbers of each, based solely on how long they were issued.
as for Gold CAC stickers, they are quite scarce across the spectrum, right??
good box of 20 idea
From the picture that looks like it’s either NGC 2.0 or 2.1 (can’t tell without seeing the back). Those are known as the NGC white holders and are more scarce than rattlers.
NGC fatty slabs in general (which lasted for several generations) are probably more common than rattlers.
See here for the NGC generations from Conder:
https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/117773-ngc-slab-varieties/
Weiss...I am sure you know that the white label NGC slab shown is rare in itself. Very Nice Coin and Slab...Looks scratch free...
CC
In terms of which has more gold CAC stickers, I don’t know. My guess is that you might just be seeing more PCGS rattlers offered or people are cracking the NGC (non 1.0, 2.0, or 2.1) to cross at PCGS if the upgrade is worth it.
Great slab and sticker. Can we see the back of the slab? I only see one flyspeck on the front, noted for the sake of accuracy and it really does not detract from my enjoyment of the slab. I see a few possible rim nicks on the slab, would need to see in hand. Could be as-slabbed, and not PSD. As for the sticker I only see on questionable little spot. I also wish they would have positioned it differently. But that is just a matter of taste.
I love that 1913 Buffalo!! I personally own one NGC fattie with a gold CAC, it's an NGC Gen 3.0 Morgan.
One of only 30 $2 1/2 Indians with a gold sticker.
Reverse of my slab (NGC 2):
--Severian the Lame
This thread illustrates the obvious problem that numismatists seems unable to recover from in that there is no plausible explanation as to why what is actually in the plastic is not more important than some sticker or series of numbers that suggest some artificial rarity based on an opinion. And I am not referring to condition rarity, but an opinion of a prior opinion and somehow because there are x number of a certain color sticker that we have something rare... Well I am not able to buy into any of this..
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
it's not that hard to understand, to me. show dogs receive multiple awards, citations, recognition, etc., why can't a coin have two "opinions?"
isn't a coin that grades ms70 at both ngc and pcgs better than one that received a 69 at one service and a 70 at the other?
aren't modern coins differentiated by labels (ie, first strike, or autographed, etc)?
what's wrong with a nice fat gold bean on a nice fat slab if the coin inside is really nice...like those posted here in this thread?
nice coins everyone! here's mine:
I'm betting many of these are cracked out to get them in PCGS plastic.
I would much rather prefer a old ngc fatty to a modern pcgs OR ngc. Same goes with an old rattler as well
I couldn't agree more...
I certainly think the older holders show stability and add nostalgia creating a premium; however, what if the coin is more than one point undergraded? In that case, I think a modern PCGS +2 grade interval slab is worth more. My experience with submitting to CAC has been that the coins only receive the gold sticker if they are grossly undergraded and the grade on the label looks stupid.
But gold cacs are pretty rare. And buyers know it means they are way under graded. Sooo they should still sell for a big premium... right? Why get rid of the cool factor of an old holder and a gold cac?
I will only say that ALL of the coins pictured in this thread appear to be better than the assigned grade. they are pictures, but they sure look fine. I think I would rather have the coins as they are after 25+ years in the same tomb.
Because my experience is that most prospective buyers typically will base their valuations and offers for gold stickered coins at only one grading interval above and not more. The CAC gold premium has shrunk for many coins. Of course, I'm sure it depends heavily on the series and the rarity of the issue. Also, I think there is more nostalgia (read as larger premium) for rattlers and early OGH than the old no line fatties.
I think stability is a perfectly valid reason to like older slabs.
Fact is, NGC and PCGS have graded something like 80 million coins and counting. That's a staggeringly large number. Third party grading is arguably the most significant change to our hobby in half a century. It's literally the reason I'm typing this and you're reading this.
The rattler and the fatty may not have been the first efforts on this path. But they could be seen as the Model T of slabs--the earliest widely-recognized, widely accepted, standardized foundation of what the phenomenon would become.
As a box of 20 collector, you want to maximize your pieces any way you can. If you have the option of having a desirable, collector favorite, first year, one year, gem-state classic in a new slab vs. a vintage slab with a gold CAC?
--Severian the Lame
they are immensely cool and have some added intrigue as the spice. Oh yeah the stability is a factor
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sadly, this one was turned in for a modern 58+ CAC. I accept blame.
Lance.
ouch
That is absolutely stunning!! I prefer the look of it before in the older holder over the modern PCGS holder with the prongs that overlap parts of the coin. I do understand why you did crack it though.
This looks MS66ish.
Pure gold satin finish.
Collectors, in general (not just coins), are interesting....The things they collect are the major category, then comes the sub categories - and it seems most collecting fields have them. For coins it is grade, eye appeal, TPG, slab, slab generation, sticker, variety, error, color etc.. The coin itself almost gets lost in the various contributing factors.... I know most of these points are 'selling points' and hype opportunities for dealers... and they work. I can remember when tarnish was not desirable.... now it can command significant premiums. Now there are premiums for certain slabs and certainly for stickers (remember when there were no stickers?). Also, remember when there were no slabs? So, the bottom line is that collectors, and their interests, vary, and cover many facets. Those facets expand the hobby field, excite some to the point of paying for a specific issue, and create markets. Isn't collecting fun??
Cheers, RickO
I collect gold coins, and like old holders, errors, and toned gold. I am still trying to find my "white whale", which is a toned error gold in an old holder! The closest I have is this toned, double mint mark (not a real error, I guess) in a retro STYLE holder, lol.
it definitely has 66 luster. there are some small marks on the obverse under glass...and the reverse has a few whispy abrasions above the eagle, with a bit of a weak strike on the feathers of the arrows.
however, it's a solid 63/4 coin, and most likely the highest known grade of this date.
even as a raw coin (part of the ed milas collection) it was regarded by many as gem, finest known. so, the gold sticker is pretty important now, as i don't know why ngc was so harsh with their grade.
i am not crossing this coin to pcgs unless they grade another one higher, or the same. i want to keep it in it's original holder, although i have agonized over whether or not to cross it.
That looks at least MS64 by today's standards to me.
I've owned this one a while and like it very much-
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Here's Mine:
Unfortunately, this 1814 Bust Half was likely cracked just before I bought her. It now resides in a PCGS 63 CAC holder...
Dave
wow, some upgrade!
BHNC #203
Looks like the original grade from the sticker on the back was correct...it just took a while to get there.
Great thread!
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No sticker, but I love this recent purchase:
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i like the idea of the doily slabs as well being in a box of 20
No doubt sellers love these kind of threads all the time.
and the au-58 ones too.
I like them ALL! Thank You for sharing!
Too many ood looking coins in this thread I couldn't help but bump it!
loving these old style slabs. Wish NGC could go back to this style vs prongs
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Has anyone else noticed that some of the coins with gold CAC the dealers have priced them at the next grade up? I don't know if there is any premium left then.
Very nice!
My YouTube Channel
Now that is what a gold coin should look like. Nice one.
One of the comments last year was that rattlers and OGH holders might be preferable to fatties. Might be worth a survey, but I think not. IMO the old PCGS holders look cheap vs. the cool look of the old NGC holders. The condition of the holders comes into play as well, the fatties seem to hold up better, based on my admittedly limited scope.
I love the old NGC no line fatties, perhaps because the first coins I bought in 1992 were housed in them. To me they have a classic look. I also like knowing the coin has not been messed with for 25 years.
This is my only Gold CAC gold coin. A common date, but shimmering in magical frost. This also has a die crack that extends from the “L” in Liberty, through the olive branch, and into the rays just above the date.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Depends on how undergraded it is. AU55 to AU58+, AU55 to MS63 as shown. And nice color add more. And, it if is a scarcer type of slab, that may be more. Just depends on the number two people agree to.
I love that 1913 @Weiss
Nice smooth fields on that 47 Walker
Can I add that I really like this thread? The stickers and holders are cool but there are some great looking coins here. The two bust halves are sweet (love the strikethrough). That 1859 half eagle is ridiculously clean on the obverse. Also like TomB's Franklin. Great stuff in here.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.