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Confederate Half Sells for $960K

CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

The Newman coin sold at 960k. The only three available coins came out in a short span of time, and being the last one may have been advantageous, being that the others are presumably locked up.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/confederate-states-of-america/1861-50c-original-confederate-states-of-america-half-dollar-pr40-ngc-cac/a/1260-15125.s

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    RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Did you buy it? ;)

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

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    bkzoopapabkzoopapa Posts: 177 ✭✭✭

    Another case of selling too early, I sold my Original Cent to QDB in 1983. For$12,000, about a third of what the Buyers Fee for this one is.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    Legend bought it and the cent on behalf of a history buff collector

    I am always delighted when this is the vector of attraction. :D

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Congratulations to the "history buff!" Until the recent sales (last two or three years), none of these coins had been available for a very long time. This is one of those coins that has a great story behind it. I have had to make myself content with a Scott restrike, although that piece has a good story connected with it as well.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bkzoopapa said:
    Another case of selling too early, I sold my Original Cent to QDB in 1983. For$12,000, about a third of what the Buyers Fee for this one is.

    Yes, as I remember it, QDB (Bowers) had an example of the Confederate Cent listed for sale in his "Rare Coin Review" in the 1970s for a long time. Back then he was looking for something like $3 or $4 thousand and was not getting any buyers.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow !!! :o

    Timbuk3
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    thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What did the cent bring ? That was a beauty !

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin... and really rare....Four pieces struck....I guess that precludes a 'hoard' being found... :D Cheers, RickO

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    bkzoopapabkzoopapa Posts: 177 ✭✭✭

    the cent brought $155,000 plus 20% buyers fee

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The half's are cool and unique with their history. The Cents are fantasy pieces clearly struck privately after the war as tokens and marketed with a crazy story that carefully doesn't actually claim any southern connection. They turn my stomach that the fog of time has caused them to be accepted by nothing more than blind hope.

    At best they were made in Philly by a drunk and bankrupt medal maker and sensationalized by a dealer during a period of nostalgia for the war.

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Double 'WOW'...............................: :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Vector Victor !

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
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    ScarsdaleCoinScarsdaleCoin Posts: 5,188 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2017 10:21AM

    "Storybook" coins always will be highly prized and hard to assign what the true value really is.... this one is certainly in that category!

    FYI, I believe that one of the 4 coins was exhibited in the year 1910 by the owner of that time Mr. Adams at the New York Numismatic Club during an informal diner at Keens Chophouse on 36th street (Keen's Restaurant is still there) ... at the time the coin was valued at $10,000. Mr. Adams also had a letter dated 1879 from Jefferson Davis stating that one of the four coins was taken from President Davis personal trunk after his capture.

    Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
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    What was the pre-sale estimate?

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,512 ✭✭✭✭✭

    wow.

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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,848 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Glad it wasn't protested by the likes of those so driven to remove "our" (rebellious) history from public view !

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    NapNap Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto said:
    The half's are cool and unique with their history. The Cents are fantasy pieces clearly struck privately after the war as tokens and marketed with a crazy story that carefully doesn't actually claim any southern connection. They turn my stomach that the fog of time has caused them to be accepted by nothing more than blind hope.

    At best they were made in Philly by a drunk and bankrupt medal maker and sensationalized by a dealer during a period of nostalgia for the war.

    They could have been struck during the war rather than after it, but I agree that they are fantasy pieces. There is no documentary history (that I'm aware of) connecting these issues to the Confederacy.

    A good story always goes a long way though, with very rare coins.

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    oldgoldloveroldgoldlover Posts: 429 ✭✭✭

    Sorta funny that a confederate coin goes for close to a million bucks but a confederate statue is no longer to be shown. When it comes down to valuable coins all that political incorrectness crap gets tossed aside.

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017 6:28AM

    @Nap said:

    @Crypto said:
    The half's are cool and unique with their history. The Cents are fantasy pieces clearly struck privately after the war as tokens and marketed with a crazy story that carefully doesn't actually claim any southern connection. They turn my stomach that the fog of time has caused them to be accepted by nothing more than blind hope.

    At best they were made in Philly by a drunk and bankrupt medal maker and sensationalized by a dealer during a period of nostalgia for the war.

    They could have been struck during the war rather than after it, but I agree that they are fantasy pieces. There is no documentary history (that I'm aware of) connecting these issues to the Confederacy.

    A good story always goes a long way though, with very rare coins.

    There is no oral history either. The Story claims some unnamed person asked a drunk in Philadelphia (the north) to make tokens that were found by a coin dealer (all of them how lucky) who sold them a decade after the war. Then another dealer who bought that dealers stuff found the die (how did that get there, how lucky) who made more and sold them. And then another dealer got a hold of the stuff and made more using transfer dies.

    Other than the mystery person maybe being from the south there is no connection even claimed and even then that person is unverifiable to exist let alone be from the south let alone be a Gov offical.

    They made only 4 halves and gave one to the president and proudly announced it to the world, but yet not even a word on a letter or document about the pennies?

    When the first appearance in history is in a coin dealers inventory and even he admits they were made by a bankrupt drunk far away from where the coins report to be connected to, one should really question the rest of the BS story. But hey what do I know.

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017 6:29AM

    @oldgoldlover said:
    Sorta funny that a confederate coin goes for close to a million bucks but a confederate statue is no longer to be shown. When it comes down to valuable coins all that political incorrectness crap gets tossed aside.

    not funny at all. The half is a historical relic with a tangible connection to the history good or bad and worthy of being preserved for future generations. The other is a monument to honor (rewrite) that history good or bad with most people in the country considering the history despicable and not worthy of honor. Completely different

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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    crypto you seem to have a bone against these coins. too bad. heritage said there were 5 people bidding $750G. people like that are not stupid. the 1C started at $80G and went to $155G. heritage also has one of the top researchers on these kinds of coins. Plus, no other numismatic scholars have stepped up ever presenting the case you are trying too.

    time to retire your logo too. Isn't that offensive to native indians for what it represents?

    allow the fact that restrikes are collectable. the market has stated their values

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    Great coin, and way more interesting than many U.S. rarities that sell in the $1M range. It's historical, extremely rare, and has a great story behind it.

    www.sullivannumismatics.com Dealer in Mint Error Coins.
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dcarr is not bankrupt!

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,398 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    crypto you seem to have a bone against these coins. too bad. heritage said there were 5 people bidding $750G. people like that are not stupid. the 1C started at $80G and went to $155G. heritage also has one of the top researchers on these kinds of coins. Plus, no other numismatic scholars have stepped up ever presenting the case you are trying too.

    time to retire your logo too. Isn't that offensive to native indians for what it represents?

    allow the fact that restrikes are collectable. the market has stated their values

    Intrinsic value and legitimacy can be and often are decoupled plus there are plenty of sheepeople millionaires who do because they think they should instead of understanding. Plenty of researchers have stated including HA that the history is unverifiable and dubious at best for the cents.

    I suspect you are conflating the intellectual riggers of my BS meter as a history buff, indifference for the hard-on many exhibit for the confederacy to the point they suspend the need for legitimacy or decorum and your willingness to :o and accept the premise that people are smarter than you because they can bid 6 figures on a coin.

    I get it there are some confederate tokens that people call cents that have been novelties for almost 150 years. People like you like to fill in details to make them more special, people like me like to understand them and are then underwhelmed by the few facts available. The people like you (the more successful ones at least) are the often the ones who pay up for them as novelties and then have to go all in believing as not to undercut their value.

    I believe that the cents fill a void because other than the 4 half's, some normal 61-o halves and gold issues, the Secessionist Gov is under represented in coinage. This obviously didn't go unnoticed on the various dealers who "marketed" the cents over the years.

    Say what you will these are the facts about the cents:
    1)No records of any kind or in anyway connecting them to the confederacy or to a person connected to the confederacy
    2)No record of any kind before the 1870s
    3)Made privately in the North in Philadelphia
    4)Coin dealer "found" all of them and the die and marketed them as such
    5)Maker was of low charter and dealer was known to lobby the mint for special coins during the period where the hobby was rapidly expanding and special coins simply appearing (proof bust dollars anyone)

    If one was to call them Confederate Cents I don't personally think having an association with the Confederacy or issued by a gov (to be monetized a cent/money) is a bridge to far, they are simply neither confederate nor cents. If one was to say the most desirable Civil War token then I would gladly accept that even if I rolled my eyes on why they are so desirable.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,557 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017 7:40AM

    @bkzoopapa said:
    Another case of selling too early, I sold my Original Cent to QDB in 1983. For$12,000, about a third of what the Buyers Fee for this one is.

    Yeah, but you got yours in change...........

    Spock out

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017 8:16AM

    @specialist said:
    crypto you seem to have a bone against these coins. too bad. 1) heritage said there were 5 people bidding $750G. people like that are not stupid. the 1C started at $80G and went to $155G. heritage also has one of the top researchers on these kinds of coins. Plus, no other numismatic scholars have stepped up ever presenting the case you are trying too.

    2) time to retire your logo too. isn't that offensive to 3) native 4) Indians for what it represents? >
    allow the fact that restrikes are collectable. the market has stated their values

    1) His reverence for the half and its provenance are stated.
    2) You won't be saying that to Dan Snyder next week when @Crypto, he and I have coffee in Balt. B)
    3) Native Americans or, lately, indigenous peoples o:)
    4) Indians from the easternmost tip of Maine to Mumbai are offended :'(

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017 9:02AM

    @crypto79 Thanks for your researched (?) opinion on the "CSA" (?) cents.

    Nevertheless, I'm not taking the "bait" about political history you are slinging. Let's please cut posting the progressive propaganda that has been/still is taught in our schools for three quarters of a Century. During the FL hurricane, I holed-up overnight in an elementary school and reviewed an American History book used in the classroom. Very serendipitous as a few months ago in a discussion here on commemoratives and the monument desecrations I said I would look for a modern history book to prove what I posted in that old thread.

    We cannot change any minds when folks who went to school read U.S. History books with more column inches given to certain folks* who will remain unmentioned than devoted to George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and Ben Franklin COMBINED!

    *I found 4 immediately and quit looking!

    @specialist Please stop this American Indian CRAP!** Example: Get informed about the Washington Redskin's and why they picked that symbol. Same goes for our colleges and high schools! Unfortunately, a small minority of bleeding hearts and enemies of America are destroying our heritage brick-by-brick which is made up of both good and bad. Get over it!.

    Read the rules.

    PS We all are under the same rules so I tried to FLAG this but couldn't do it myself. May I please have more disagrees. :p

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    WillieBoyd2WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where are the Colonel Green's or Eric P. Newman's who aren't afraid to show what they've got?

    :)

    https://www.brianrxm.com
    The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
    Coins in Movies
    Coins on Television

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    sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The questionable origins of the Confederate issues are enough so that I wouldn't be interested as a collector but I can understand the very real appeal of these questionable coins to others. To each their own. Spend your money on what appeals most to you and I'll do the same.

    The legitimacy of the 1913 Liberty Nickel is very much in doubt but that doesn't keep them from selling for millions. But, again, it's not how I would spend millions on a single coin, if I had that kind of money to spend.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Best thing of all about the Half -NGC was gloating about it-bet it goes right to PCGS!

    The history of this piece is a grand as any classic rarity. Congrats to the new owner on both coins.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2017 8:38AM

    @specialist said:
    Best thing of all about the Half -NGC was gloating about it-bet it goes right to PCGS!

    I am sure @DonWillis will reward your sucking up in your next submission >:):#

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Now if only somebody could find a hoard of previously unknown Confederate silver dollars buried under the floor at the New Orleans Mint, we could have the General Services Administration and the Transportation Safety Administration conduct the GSA TSA CSA Sale!

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2017 10:34AM

    And a barrel of those uncirculated CSA cents too.

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    bkzoopapabkzoopapa Posts: 177 ✭✭✭

    No Spock, my restrike CSA copper cent came from John Ross’s $1 junk bowl. Unfortunately it wasn’t me that found it. went straight to Leonard Starks store and ended up costing me $900.

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