Beginner advice
OGDan
Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi all, need some advice. I've personally accumulated a bunch of gold and silver over the years, but I did so without much advice and I know that I could have taken a better route to accumulating my stash. A friend recently approached me wanting to build their own stash of gold and silver, let's say about $20k in silver and $50k in gold.
If someone approached you with this kind of question, where would you send them and what advice would you give? Some things I'm considering:
- APMEX isn't the cheapest option, but they're easy to deal with especially for a beginner. Would you recommend working with anyone else, or just go with APMEX?
- For the silver, I'm thinking a few big boxes of Silver Eagles will suffice. What alternate advice might you suggest?
- For the gold, they're looking for good value, but also smaller denominations for barter/trade in case the SHTF. Would you recommend gold eagles in 1oz and lower denominations, or some PAMP-Suise bars from 1 oz. and lower?
I appreciate any advice you can offer. I know there are many different ways to go about this, so I'd love to hear some different viewpoints.
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Comments
Your in Cali I think, do it all via shows...
Don't position for shtf, that's just plain bad investing...
Buy gold eagle proofs right now or buffalos, silver keep it simple you can get walkers now at great prices and if you hit it right low premium silver eagles, if you have to have those, but i'd pass...
1 ounce gold/silver eagles and 1 oz gold buffalos. If you want to venture into semi-collectible bullion look at pre-1933 generic date gold and pre-1965 junk silver.
I'd shy away from anything with a significantly larger premium than regular AGE/Buffalos. eg proofs and certified pieces.
AGE's & ASE's
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
My advice depends entirely on two considerations for your friend:
His preference for variety (a collection) versus boring stuff, and His exit strategy, easy low premium move it out, or sell it slowly to collectors. Basically, level of time expenditure and attention to the pieces, versus just buy, hold, then sell the metal (or, often, leave it to the heirs)
So, what does the person want to own?
The default is rolls of whatever date ASEs, and an assortment of whatever date AGEs in all the sizes, as cheap as he can find them.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Thats it , if you get bullion at shows pay with cash and leave no paper trail. You know what else? You could swap coins for bullion. Say you have a sack of trade dollars laying around ....................swap them for bullion , you know more about what they are worth than the other side will.
In the LA area use CNI. Been doing business there for years. Golddealer.com
M
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Thanks all, super helpful. Follow-up question, why buy AGE's over the various little bars like camp-suisse? More desirable? Lower premium? (I wouldn't think so) Just curious why the AGEs are being recommended. Would the premium over spot be higher on one vs. the other?
What's the reason to leave no paper trail, other than keeping the government out of the loop?
Uncle Sam and more importantly future opposing divorce lawyers .
The windows are open and transparent 24/7 on AGE's and ASE's
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Same reason as ASEs vs. generic silver. Save all purchase receipts to aid in capital gains taxes upon resale.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
What is that reason? Spell it out for me.
Liquidity, and relatively low and predictable buy/sell spreads.
Largely as a result of relative ease of identification/authentication.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I agree with gold and silver eagles.
Two monster boxes of silver eagles should equal $20k nicely. That takes care of that.
As for the gold: While I like buffaloes, I don't think they're ideal for beginners who are just trying to lay down a base tan.
I'm personally a fan of 1/4 ounce gold eagles, but 1/10th gold eagles seem to be much more popular and are therefore perhaps a bit more liquid.
So taking this into consideration, my prescription for your friend's PM fever:
2 monster boxes of silver eagles ($20k)
30 1-oz gold eagles ($40k)
70 1/10 oz gold eagles ($10k)
I'm fine with them buying at shows, but caution them to only buy at a known show from well known dealers. Accompany your friend if you can. The last thing we want to see is a newbie walking into a flea market and dropping $70k on a bunch of Chinese fakes.
--Severian the Lame
At least one AP is selling prior year ASEs at $1.90 over spot delivered , but you'd probably need to buy at least 3 monster boxes to get that pricing. They might take cash too. Hopefully you would not have to withdraw it from a "left tracks" account.
AGE's and ASE's......Better liquidity than bars or other country PM's..... Some smaller denomination in gold is a good idea...@Weiss outlined a great plan..... Cheers, RickO
Again, very helpful, thanks guys.
I'm not sure how much to worry about leaving tracks. What kind of scenarios, other than divorce, are you all worried about?
AGEs are more liquid.
No paper trail is to help you cheat on your taxes.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
And the future ex wives . Why do you think all these coin dealers are still doing ok even after the requisite minimum 3 marriages ?
not worth it to cheat on your taxes when you resell. Share your profits with your uncle cause he'll also share your losses.
Many worry about the gov. knowing they bought a bunch of PMs. Don't worry about it, they know everything else about you.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Gold is gold for a reason. Taxes, divorce, law suits, government seizure (it happened in this country not too long ago). The reasons to avoid paper trails are many and run deep.
--Severian the Lame
I would split Weiss's plan into 3 purchases at least 1 month apart in order to smooth the market risk component a bit. I like the idea of buying in larger chunks because it makes the accounting cost management simpler which is helpful when it's time to sell, either piecemeal or all at once.
I see no reason not to keep all prying eyes out of the loop, and it's not about tax evasion. There's a reason that Congress has a horrible approval rating. I would never trust them, would you? Keeping your purchases somewhat private is simply being careful, irrespective of gov.com
I knew it would happen.
All you need now is a vendor to get hacked , could that expose information about purchases that could lead to you getting robbed?
I know a guy in California who had 2 idiots break into his house in broad daylight and demand money. My cousin was there and they duct taped him to a chair and put him in the bathroom.
Time to have everything shipped to the P.O. Box.
I knew it would happen.
I use to stack PAMP 5/10 gram gold bars but I have seen how good Chinese fakes are. I sold all of my blister packs and moved on from that and have never looked back. Without reading the article, tell me which PAMP bar in the first pic is real....now do you get why most people stick with AGE's? At least the Secret Service will look into counterfeiters.
https://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/2016/03/counterfeiters-target-1-ounce-gold-pamp-bars.all.html#
This may help "spell it out" reasoning for sticking with AGE/ASE if you are a US taxpayer:
https://www.jmbullion.com/reportable-bullion-transactions-infographic/
If I was telling your friend:
I'd have him buy PCGS graded $20 Saints as they are very cheap right now...pretty much gold melt price. That takes care of the gold.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/989625/heard-a-rumor-that-over-2-million-20-saints-just-came-into-the-us/p1
For silver, ASE's are also the most liquid along with $100/$500/$1000 bags of 90% silver coinage (this depends on if you have storage space). Most people are familiar with them and ASE's are pretty easy to determine authenticity. I'd recommend getting Mercury Dimes or Walking Liberty Half Dollars if you buy bags of 90% as they are the most popular types that you can get for a few % over melt.
Have opted out of several $10k + sales of PM because guys don’t want their hidden cash reported and I don’t want to commit a felony.
One might consider buying select modern collector coins from the US mint, having them graded and then reselling. Use the profits to keep the game growing and eventually funnel future profits into a stack of bullion. A lot of ebay sellers have made a lot of money flipping US Mint products. I personally would focus on the gold collector coins - more bang for your buck when it comes to grading fees.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong