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Heard a rumor that over 2 million $20 Saints just came into the US.
fivecents
Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
I Heard a rumor at the Chattanooga,Tennessee coin show (Camp Jordan) that over 2 million $20 Saints just came into the US. It had depressed the market, killing alot of the premiums for better dates.
The dealers at the show were paying 97% of melt for certified common $20 Saints uncs.
Any truth to it or just a bunch of BS talk ?
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The Camp Jordan show is the Tennessee State Numismatic Society Fall show.
The premiums have seemed pretty low for a while.
To the 2 million number, no idea.
Could just be a lot of 'bull' ion.........who knows?
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
If true, it's about time we started getting our gold/coins back. I hate it when nice coins leave our shores.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
yeah, we sold them for $20 and are now paying $1200+ to get them back. good move!!! no wonder the economy is in a shambles.
I wonder if there'll be a special label -- "The Great Saint Repatriation of 2017"
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Checking the PCGS pops for Saints - MCMVII excluded
NM 175,468 (153,753 are 1908-P)
WM 804,202
not quite 1,000,000 so far in 30+ years
let's say 1,000,000 for NGC
If someone wants $2.5billion in gold, there are much simpler and easier ways to get it, and the market premium for Saints is a rounding error.
Your continuing thoughts
@DoubleEagle59 said: "Could just be a lot of 'bull' ion.........who knows?"
I took back my "disagree" and gave you a "LOL," I was told the actual amount was much more than two million.
For reals??
The gold dealer laughed at the two million figure...then he added that five million would not affect the market the way it is. I'm not qualified to comment on the gold market. He is
If it was "reales" (check the Darkside for spelling), it could be the first sign that the Central American Gold market is about to collapse. @MrEureka is trying to finance and place the deal to protect the value of his collection.
Or is that "escudos" (check the Darkside
)
Or is that "Saints" (check the Twilight Zone
)
Buy the rumor. Sell the news.
I remember reading in a thread here a while back where someone apparently had some inside information about a whole mess of them coming back. There was no mention of quantity.
Found it:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/981774/if-the-premiums-on-saints-goes-much-lower/p1
I did mention this 7-8 months ago
in another thread.
It's not a 'one shot' deal.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
I would love to buy some UNC $20 St. Gaudens graded at melt. Any sellers?
Gulp.
I missed that. 
Wondering as to what degree and in what grades premiums for Libs decreased in sympathy to this over the same time period.
BTW NGC graded 973,587, more Saints than our hosts
Not 08 NM but
I don't think these coins were tossed around very much. The average grade on these could be as high or higher than Wells Fargo
So:
848 PCGS/NGC 342/506) Saints MS67 or better.
81 CAC Saints CAC MS67 or better
and 08NM (PCGS) only
MS67/8801, MS68/101, MS69/10
I don't know what case this might make for or against. It's much larger than all others combined by an order of magnitude.
Projections based on $1300 gold. MS67 $2800, CAC MS67 $4400.
No scheisse!!!
So, I guess I should have warned you all before I brought the 10 bags of Saints thru customs?
BHNC #203
Only 10 bags? Child's play.
not to the fork lift.
Oops, I forgot to add that they were jumbo bags.
still, 10 bags X 1,000 coins X $1200 = $12,000,000.
BHNC #203
Fred...did 2 million Saints come in at one shot ? That's the rumor.
True or not the story is an invitation for "fake news" unless verifiable sources are revealed.
If you see the game of high stakes chicken being played by the Saud's, that could easily cause the movement of vast quantities of gold, not sure whether it would be Saints or k'rands or whatever.
My best observation is that lots of people around the globe have significant "liquidity" issues and gold is relatively easy to sell quickly without taking too much of a haircut.
Any '33s in this group ?
Just check ebay for all the sub-$1200 Saints and $20 Libs in and out of holders, some in MS grades that have sold in the last few months. The market is very picky now. 1000-2000 $20 gold pieces won't affect the population figures much, short term depression. I wonder where they came from in a large quantity like that a bank?
I don't know how many coins have come back, but it's worth noting that 2 million Saints melts for about $2.5 Billion. And if you want to sell that many coins, you're probably going to need to get them stickered. Just saying.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Unless factual circumstances and names/dates are provided, a rumor is simply idle commend and worthless. That is, without being able to check statements for their truth, there is nothing.
(BTW - careful background and fact checking shows that the famous 1908 DE hoard included many more coins than publicly claimed. But the exact quantity has yet to be revealed.)
$2million worth of $20 Saints sounds more believable to me. But hey, it's not my rumor.
Lance.
The dollar value is irrelevant ultimately for premium part of this story. The real reason for the premium drop is the quality of the coins and the grades they were given. I have seem some of these coins and was talking about them with a major gold dealer over the last day or so. Coins that I grade ms62/3 were in ms64 holders. 65's were 63/64's. It was just embarrassing in my opinion.
The dates affected took some big hits (10-15%) almost overnight
There's a very subtle difference between hearing "2 million $20 Saints" and "2 million in $20 Saints." It would be very likely that the actual truth, assuming it contained the number 2 million and a reference to Saints, was rather easily corrupted somewhere from source to this post to the $2.5B worth of coins alleged.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
@RogerB said: "Unless factual circumstances and names/dates are provided, a rumor is simply idle commend and worthless. That is, without being able to check statements for their truth, there is nothing."
I'll bet that a few "market makers" know what's going on including all the arrangements to sell the coins. Perhaps someone out of the deal started some "smoke." It is probably best not to tell everyone what is going on and who is involved. The usual suspects?
Roger gave us a case to support this: "BTW - careful background and fact checking shows that the famous 1908 DE hoard included many more coins than publicly claimed. But the exact quantity has yet to be revealed." So far, no one has revealed anything, only rumors.
Oh when the Saints come marching in, oh when the saints coming marching in..
this has already occurred. No new news and the market has already absorbed these. Relax
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
No, of course 2 Million $20's didn't
come out in one shot.
It used to take me a full week or more
to buy $2 million worth of $10's & $20's
in Europe when I was going there on a
regular basis - 1974 to the late 1990's.
(gold spot was less, too)
I'm not a market-maker obviously, and
I don't know all the inside skinny on the
deal.
I heard that it's $20 million per deal -
includes other denominations too.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Sadly, participants in real "deals" rarely want to release any information to anyone. The DE book research I completed was very frustrating to work on in that respect.
I'll take a 27D in 66 for melt
Very few for under $1,200. And most of those are from scammers, it looks like.
Whats the typical mark up on generic gold on any given day?
Or should I say "fair" mark up? Just simply the difference between bid & ask?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
premiums have been shrinking on a lot of the commodity bullion for quite a while, including silver eagles and even the platinum proof eagles as well as common date 20s. I'm not aware of any supply spike, I think it is demand driven as it is not specific to any single type.
Whos the buyer?
I don't know anything about this deal, but anyone who's ever seen pics of the Swiss gold vaults knew there was an issue if it ever came back en mass. Fred talks about cherrypicking out $2MM at a time for years, think about what he was picking FROM.
Several Bags are reported. Formerly the property of S. McDuck.
I wasn't cherry-picking per se -
I, like other Euro US Gold buyers,
would buy as much, or as many
deals, as we could.
The 'cherrypickin' ' came after I got
the coins back in my office, sorted
them, and cherrypicked the quality
coins (and/or dates) and charged
more for 'em.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Sounds like a dream job.
I don't see any changes yet reflected on the PCGS price guide: https://www.pcgs.com/prices/priceguidedetail.aspx?ms=1&pr=1&sp=1&c=67&title=st.+gaudens+$20
Where are the largest price changes being shown, Greysheet, CCE?
Even in the early 1990s when gold was low it was possible to buy up US gold in Europe at or near spot.
What dates are represented in this European gold...mostly 20th century?
No doubt as we speak, some of these are being loaded into coffee cans. Then are to be buried on Grandpa Edbergs farm, by the old Oak tree. For a future release date of the "Great Grandpa Edberg hoard".
Let's just say I was told I can have as many MS63 as I want for $40 over spot...
Hoard the keys.
Back the truck up playa!