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Need some help with 1852o Gold

Not my area of expertise. What do you guys think? Tried my best with pics

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    amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017 2:43PM

    I think it's a 35...might go 40 on a good day.

    PS...that opinion could change in hand. Lots of attributes point to a higher grade....my opinion is based on the Obv. Picture!

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017 2:54PM

    Please put this in one eye and out the other - then wait for a gold expert to comment. I don't like the coin - looks counterfeit. The letters and berries look too "fat." Need sharper image to be 100% sure.

    EDIT: Yeah, I'm 99.9% C/F.

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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    I know one of the diagnostics for this coin being counterfeit is a broken 8 .... thia one is not broken. Lots of fake gold dollars between 1850-54. Hoping this isn't one of them. Doesnt look mushy in person but figured one or a few of the gold guya would know. Once determined if authentic ill send it in to our host

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cacoinguy said:
    I know one of the diagnostics for this coin being counterfeit is a broken 8 .... thia one is not broken. Lots of fake gold dollars between 1850-54. Hoping this isn't one of them. Doesnt look mushy in person but figured one or a few of the gold guya would know. Once determined if authentic ill send it in to our host

    Take a look at the sharpness of the relief on 1853-O coins on the net and you'll see what I posted. If it looks "mushy" to me in a photo, it is probably mushy in my hand :). We just have a different idea of "mushy" and that's OK. :)

    Also, the color and type of luster (satin) do not look "right."

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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    I'm not saying it is or isnt authentic ill be the first to admit that. Just relaying what I've found out during my limited research thats all. I do see what you mean about mushy in the photos though. I know the 1852o is known for a week strike not sure if same deal with the 1853o

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    Please put this in one eye and out the other - then wait for a gold expert to comment. I don't like the coin - looks counterfeit. The letters and berries look too "fat." Need sharper image to be 100% sure.

    EDIT: Yeah, I'm 99.9% C/F.

    I'm not so sure. I like that the rims and broad reeding look about right for the issue. Not the type of thing counterfeiters usually get right. But I agree that the strike is awfully weak, and that the color looks more washed out and satiny than I would expect. Need to see it in hand, or at least get better pics. (BTW, the coin looks uncirculated, so you've got a winner if it's real!)

    For comparison, a coin from CoinFacts:

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the image. Now I'm 100% C/F. And "O" mints are weak but my grannie told me to beware of gem uncirculated coins with the details of an XF. See that line thru the bottom stars. I think that is on one c/f die. Also, in the blow up I think I see tiny spike tool marks. This should have been resolved by now. :( For the sake of the OP, I hope I'm embarrassed.

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,563 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure looks NG to me.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Gold dollars are justifiably boring.
    I'm sorry, but they are too damn small.

    :|

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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    Looks to be about half the crowd thinks good and other half looks no good.

    My feelings arent hurt either way and I appreciate all the help. Just trying to figure out if it goes to PCGS monday or not

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017 4:13PM

    What's the rush? See what the weekend brings and mail it Tuesday.

    BTW, The only opinions I should trust are backed up with reasons for having that opinion. You've only had three opinions so far. See if you can take a sharp image of the SE quarter of the obverse.

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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭




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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017 4:42PM

    Your coin is 100% C/F. It is made of gold.

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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    Its hard with a phone camera hows this?

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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    Ok thank you I appreciate you taking the time to review my crappy pictures . Saved me the grading fees as well

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That is the BEST image of all! See how dull the surface is with full luster over the head with no detail showing yet no trace of rub? Now take a look at the star points as compared to the genuine coin. That's what professional coin authenticators call "fatty" or "mushy." No sharpness and rounded relief!

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    1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm learning here also, thanks for posting @Cacoinguy

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    Gold dollars are justifiably boring.
    I'm sorry, but they are too damn small.

    :|

    They are $20 gold pieces for doll houses ;)

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    CacoinguyCacoinguy Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    Notices some of the stars did have a mushy appearance wasnt sure if it was due to week strike. I'm glad you cleared it up. I'm a Morgan Dollar guy but as fascinated by gold pieces and trying to learn as much as possible

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cacoinguy said:
    Notices some of the stars did have a mushy appearance wasnt sure if it was due to week strike. I'm glad you cleared it up. I'm a Morgan Dollar guy but as fascinated by gold pieces and trying to learn as much as possible

    There is a proper way to learn...ONLY BUY GOLD IN TPGS SLABS! :wink:

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I mainly deal with $2 1/2's, but do buy and sell a fair share of those. I would avoid that one. Looks bad to me.

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    jwittenjwitten Posts: 5,077 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Notice how there is a thin finned rim (raised) on yours. Not visible on any of the genuine examples. Plus mushy details = fake.

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    kazkaz Posts: 9,067 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The large photos of the rev show fat/mushy letters which are worrisome.

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    jy8sjy8s Posts: 113 ✭✭

    Can you check the weight? You know Eureka type of approach.

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    AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,539 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When the S's in STATEs are different sizes that makes me real wary.

    I don't think it's the real deal, but it probably is still gold.
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with the consensus here... it is counterfeit...but likely gold....The stars, the S's and other points add up to being a fake... Cheers, RickO

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 8:42AM

    I have a small set of those and I believe that it is fake. I tried to talk myself into thinking it was real but can’t know sure without it in hand. About the strike here is mine, weak also but not grainy. I think yours is a cast off of a weak genuine coin like mine.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crypto The flat strike is on the obverse. Can you post an image of the slab's obverse?

    BTW, take a look at the OP's final image. That is one of the best images of a fake you'll ever see! No need to hold the coin! That's why the U.S. Mint uses fluorescent light to view coins and dies. The coin actually looked like a deceptive counterfeit in the glare of incandescent lighting. In the latter photo, it is a very poorly made fake!

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 9:47AM

    I got to this party late. Here is a genuine 1852-O gold dollar. You will note that it is much sharper than the fake.


    The fake was probably made as a copy from a real piece. Many of these copies lack the highest deepest details, and this piece is especially bad.

    OOPS! Grabbed the wrong coin on the first shot. Now fixed.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I too believe the OP's coin is not genuine.

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 11:23AM

    @Insider2 said:
    @Crypto The flat strike is on the obverse. Can you post an image of the slab's obverse?

    BTW, take a look at the OP's final image. That is one of the best images of a fake you'll ever see! No need to hold the coin! That's why the U.S. Mint uses fluorescent light to view coins and dies. The coin actually looked like a deceptive counterfeit in the glare of incandescent lighting. In the latter photo, it is a very poorly made fake!

    Note the shallow date, weakness is on both sides

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whatever...@Crypto. <3

    You can call it weakness; I'll just call the strike on your genuine coin normal for the date and mint.

    IMO, a more important thing in this thread is to be able to see the huge difference between the last image of the OP's C/F and a genuine coin. :wink:

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 12:27PM

    @Cacoinguy said:

    It would be interesting to compare this to the edge of an unquestionably real 52-O. Does anyone here have a raw one?

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The reeding count will be the same. I've counted them.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,947 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    The reeding count will be the same. I've counted them.

    I'd still like to see it.

    BTW, I'm definitely leaning to "fake", but the airbrushed look of the photos still makes me wonder if there's a shot the coin's good.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ANDY! None at all! IMO, the only image that looks "airbrushed" is the great photo showing how crude the coin is.

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    LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 2:38PM


    My PCGS AU58 if needed got here late.

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    CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,410 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2017 5:29PM

    Nice au58. Have you ever looked at the edges at 9 and 3 o’clock for evidence of a previous mount?

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