Glued on Mint Mark 1909-S Cent from Insider2

BillJones

Last week I was lucky enough to win Insider2’s drawing for the “1909-S Cent” with a glued on mint mark in an ICG sample slab holder. I have never owned a piece with an added mint mark, at least not to my knowledge, so this was a new item for me.

I dusted off my cameras and took a few pictures. First here are pictures of the item.

Getting a really good look at the fake mint mark was a challenge. The best view was with my microscope which made the fake mint mark really look funky. Unfortunately I could not duplicate that view with any camera that I have so I ended up using my $100 bargain scope camera which still works. Here is a close-up of the fake.

And here is a close-up of a genuine 1909-S Cent.

The mint mark on the fake does not have the correct shape, and there is black crud around it. The real piece has the correct shape, but it has crud in the letter too. In the old days the "acid test" was to bath the mint mark in acetone. If the letter stayed on the coin, that was good. If it fell off, well, that was a problem.

It is also interesting to note that the date is weak on the fake piece. I don’t know if this might have something to do with the cleaning of the area that the crooks did before they attached the mint mark. One needs to make sure that the letter stays attached. Years ago, a not quite ready for prime-time grading service certified a “1909-S-VDB Cent” as genuine. Once it got in the holder, the fake mint mark fell off and was floating around inside of the slab! Needless to say, that was a bit embarrassing.

BTW I've read that the best source for fake mint marks is to scrape them off of another genuine coin. That sounds like a lot of trouble to me, but I suppose if you can turn a $1 coin into $75 or $80 coin back in the day it was worth it.

amwldcoin

It's obviously added just due to the greater detail of the MM compared to the rest of the coin! I have a 96-S Barber Quarter like that.

oih82w8

Nice educational piece!

mannie gray

Cool coin.....I may have told this story before but where there's money to be made, there are people who will do it.
Back in the early 1970s I saved my money for a good long while to purchase a BU 1950-D nickel (which still at that late date were a real big deal......) at a local flea market from a dealer I had done some business with before.
I think I paid about $20 which was a fortune in 1973 money today.....I would guess at least the equivalent of $125 today.
When I got it home and looked at it with my glass, the D looked a little odd, so I picked at it with my fingernail and it came right off!
If people will add a D to a 1950 nickel I suppose they will do about anything.
But if $20 then is $100 today...I guess to the unscrupulous turning a $1 coin into a $100 coin is worth the effort.

ldhair

Fun coin. They needed an S that was worn down a bit more. It's cool of ICG to slab stuff like this. Great learning tools.

Timbuk3

Thanks for sharing !!!

SaorAlba

@ldhair said:
Fun coin. They needed an S that was worn down a bit more. It's cool of ICG to slab stuff like this. Great learning tools.

I like that ICG will slab the Micro-O counterfeits - I own a few of them.

ricko

Great post... That is a neat educational tool Bill... Sure represents a bit of work on the part of the conman...I knew a guy in the PNW that used to carry a vial of acetone with him at shows. He was taken in by an added MM once, and used the acetone if he was buying a raw coin when the MM was significant. Cheers, RickO

Kkathyl

Great information and congrats to @Billjones on the win great piece to have.

AMRC

I would like to see a video of how they get the "s" off another coin so well. Now that represents a level of patience I will never develop. :-)

ElKevvo

@mannie gray said:

Back in the early 1970s I saved my money for a good long while to purchase a BU 1950-D nickel (which still at that late date were a real big deal......) at a local flea market from a dealer I had done some business with before.

Wow...almost 100% my same experience....just substitute a 1916-D Merc and about 1976. Took me a long time to save the money from my paper route for that coin! I did always like going to the flea market though...a vast sea of fun treasures.

K

logger7

I got stung by one of those in a local shop several months ago; I was offered two, the lady said that one was much better. Another dealer locally said that her late husband was known as a jeweler for pulling the added mm ploy; worst that happens is they have to refund the buyer.

Insider2

Here are more added MMKS from the same "shop." Note that they are all in a different position under the date. While the 1909-S VDB has four "basic" positions, as I recall, the 1909-S Has more than that. The main way to detect this particular alteration has been mentioned. WRONG SHAPE. Another poster mentioned a "red flag." The mint mark and the date have a vastly different relief.

Also, due to the popularity (?) of this contest, I'm going to have another FREE GIVAWAY when I get my next badge (possibly in a month or two) . It will be another "Sample" slab either from one of the TPGS's or another C/F or altered coin. Anyone can enter - one chance per person: however those members who were entered in the first contest (I saved the slips) will have more chances to win.

It is not complicated. When I do the next contest you must enter on the new thread = 1 chance.
If you were in the previous contest, you already have either 1 or 2 chances in the jar. So, at the drawing many of you will have 3 chances to win! If you won the first giveaway, you can still enter the new contest.

NOTE: if Bill wins again making a second drawing necessary I'll ban the lucky EDIT.

asheland

(Above post) That's a funky looking mint mark!

Insider2

@asheland said:
(Above post) That's a funky looking mint mark!

And junk like this fools thousands of non-numismatists/collectors a year who do not use a TPGS. I have a dozen more just like them in my "black collection."

GREAT NEWS! I was just given an old counterfeit 1924-S Peace dollar that came in a bag of circulated Peace dollars. This is not from China. My guess it was made in the 1940's or 1950's. I'm going to get it slabbed and it will be the next "prize."

@AMRC said:
I would like to see a video of how they get the "s" off another coin so well. Now that represents a level of patience I will never develop. :-)

This "S" did not come off another coin. They are probably cast in tiny molds.