Interesting rattler Saint. Agree or disagree with the grade?
Weiss
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We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame
--Severian the Lame
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While I would have said 63-64 in a GTG, there could be more than meets the eye here. Hairlines or light rub might not show up in this picture.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Either a real funky strike or lots of rub on both sides. Photograph almost makes the coin look dull, worn and puttied out. I'd have to consider a phony or swapped coin in a good holder. In any case, a must see in hand.
I would give it a couple points more: 62-63.
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At that grade level we used to call them Bullion instead of Saints
All the nicks in all the usual places. I'd say that's about right for the grade.
Cheers
Bob
With the nicks shown, the coin is properly graded, IMHO.
I was gonna bring either Mr. Cosby or Mr. Weinstein into the picture, but decided not to.
Ms. Liberty's body and the area to the northwest of the coin appear oddly dull in the photo. There are also several noticeable nicks. There is a similar dull spot on the eagle's wings and tail. If there is any potential upgrade at all, and if those areas are really that dull, there isn’t. I’d say MS-62 would be the best you could get.
No, the surface, strike and luster are all there. Blame my photographic skills. Here's a close-up.
--Severian the Lame
Bagger Vance's ball marker
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
These days, there is almost no spread in price from common 61-63 Saints. Best left in the old rattler and hope you score a gold sticker. New photo still looks semi-funky.
61, 62, 63, 64, all the same price. With that smoothed look, it does look fake! Assuming it's not though.
61 - agree
Freedom is like inflation: you lose 2-3% every year. Slow enough that you don't even notice.
The grade doesn't see unreasonable
A short video clip:
--Severian the Lame
I disagree
Coin looks dull to me as well; a dip in acetone may change that, and imo many coins need a harmless bath. I was at a local shop with a 1907 $20, ogh, MS63 and the coin looked over-graded to me. Many of these are not all there or may have issues.
Looks better in the video.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
I sense a Weiss curveball in the offing
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
63+.
I am trying to figure out the significance of the Split Enz song.
MS62 probably. Like others have said, 60-63 makes no difference.... certainly not enough to bother with a regrade or crackout.
Looks fairly ticky, but not enough to warrant a 61. I like the holder, though.
I got this coin about 4 years ago. Loved the color, loved the rattler, and loved the price (my dealer sold it to me at essentially melt--it was just a 61 after all).
I thought the coin deserved at least a 63. Much of what looks like dings are frost breaks.
Or at least, I think it would deserve a 63 if it weren't for this one thing.
This one thing that our hosts caught, even back in their infancy. This one thing that it took me probably a week of head scratching and analyzing until I finally saw it. When I finally stopped seeing what I thought I saw and started seeing what I actually saw.
And once you see it, you can't unsee it.
--Severian the Lame
Eagle poop?
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Disagree, looks like an upgrade !!!
Agree with the grade. No way an upgrade lol.
If u can get sheet for MS60 sell it. It needs to be blown out. Get rid of it.
Get something looks nice PCGS 69 AGB - gold coins close to melt on way up - numismatic coins drifting down (fewer collectors).
After huge retail sale on some currency, I bought some mod $5 Commems (from dealer set up next to me) Autumn Houston show NGC MS PF 69 for $320 (fantaststic coins) each they now melt for $315. Super deal for me. They were also blowing out big collection of CSA /obsoletes ( currency market on fire!) picked up a few of these.
The swirl in the video clip needs to be slower for me.
I think that the grader spotted some very slight rub or color break, and assigned the coin a "slider" grade.
Pete
What was the price of gold 4 years ago, $1200?
How's about 2012?
The black thing, the scratches on the sun, all the little tics? The issue of either flattish strike or wear?
61 seems about right. If not generous.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
It's a 62 all day, and I've seen plenty of 63s that have more ticks. Or it would be a 62/63, if not for the BORE HOLE above the eagle's wrist. The first two images above are accurate for how the coin looks in hand. It's pretty, lots of surface frost, good color.
The close-up above is using extremely harsh light to show the depth of the hole. And on my screen at least, it's 11" across.
--Severian the Lame
I saw that on the picture in the OP.... was wondering what it was.....I wonder why it was done? And in such a spot? Test maybe? Anyway... 61/62..... Cheers, RickO
Head scratcher for sure. It has the characteristics of a drill mark / trifoil chop mark. And that's what I'm choosing to believe it is. That's a lot more romantic than "damage". I have seen zillions of chopmarked silver coins, but very, very few chopmarked gold coins. It's of the right era, we know Saints were used overseas. It looks very similar to the one shown in this thread from 2013:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11752018
--Severian the Lame
That certainly is a reasonable explanation.... nice of them to put it in a non-obvious location.... Cheers, RickO
@Weiss Are you planning to resubmit this Borehole $20 Saint to PCGS to have them buy it back for the Grading Guarantee?
It’s obviously an Altered coin that should not qualify for their Certified Numeric Grading.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Nope. I think the coin merits the somewhat unusual grade of 61. I think the graders saw a mid-grade unc with a single, tiny but unusually deep mark in an inconspicuous place, and graded it accordingly.
Now if I could resubmit it and be sure it would come back "MS61 (or MS62) Chopmark", I would in a heartbeat--even if it meant the loss of the rattler.
--Severian the Lame
@Weiss I’m glad that you like your Saint as is. - It’s an interesting conversation piece.
I like coins with an interesting story. - Maybe the hole was bored by a tiny “Gold Bug”
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
At least a 62 today. Cool pickup!
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