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Interesting rattler Saint. Agree or disagree with the grade?

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 19,704 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017 12:28PM

    While I would have said 63-64 in a GTG, there could be more than meets the eye here. Hairlines or light rub might not show up in this picture.

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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would give it a couple points more: 62-63.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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    BroadstruckBroadstruck Posts: 30,497 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At that grade level we used to call them Bullion instead of Saints ;)

    To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
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    OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭

    All the nicks in all the usual places. I'd say that's about right for the grade.

    Cheers

    Bob

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    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017 1:29PM

    With the nicks shown, the coin is properly graded, IMHO.

    I was gonna bring either Mr. Cosby or Mr. Weinstein into the picture, but decided not to.

    :o

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ms. Liberty's body and the area to the northwest of the coin appear oddly dull in the photo. There are also several noticeable nicks. There is a similar dull spot on the eagle's wings and tail. If there is any potential upgrade at all, and if those areas are really that dull, there isn’t. I’d say MS-62 would be the best you could get.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017 2:06PM

    No, the surface, strike and luster are all there. Blame my photographic skills. Here's a close-up.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭

    Bagger Vance's ball marker

    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
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    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These days, there is almost no spread in price from common 61-63 Saints. Best left in the old rattler and hope you score a gold sticker. New photo still looks semi-funky.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
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    Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    61, 62, 63, 64, all the same price. With that smoothed look, it does look fake! Assuming it's not though.

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    derrybderryb Posts: 36,212 ✭✭✭✭✭

    61 - agree

    Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt

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    dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭

    The grade doesn't see unreasonable

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,788 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I disagree :)

    LCoopie = Les
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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,094 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin looks dull to me as well; a dip in acetone may change that, and imo many coins need a harmless bath. I was at a local shop with a 1907 $20, ogh, MS63 and the coin looked over-graded to me. Many of these are not all there or may have issues.

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    WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭

    Looks better in the video.

    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
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    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2017 3:39PM

    I sense a Weiss curveball in the offing

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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    gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    63+.

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    Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am trying to figure out the significance of the Split Enz song.

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    MS62 probably. Like others have said, 60-63 makes no difference.... certainly not enough to bother with a regrade or crackout.

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    KoveKove Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭✭

    Looks fairly ticky, but not enough to warrant a 61. I like the holder, though.

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    I sense a Weiss curveball in the offing

    mark

    I got this coin about 4 years ago. Loved the color, loved the rattler, and loved the price (my dealer sold it to me at essentially melt--it was just a 61 after all).

    I thought the coin deserved at least a 63. Much of what looks like dings are frost breaks.

    Or at least, I think it would deserve a 63 if it weren't for this one thing.

    This one thing that our hosts caught, even back in their infancy. This one thing that it took me probably a week of head scratching and analyzing until I finally saw it. When I finally stopped seeing what I thought I saw and started seeing what I actually saw.

    And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    Timbuk3Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Disagree, looks like an upgrade !!! :)

    Timbuk3
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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 14, 2017 2:06PM

    Agree with the grade. No way an upgrade lol.

    If u can get sheet for MS60 sell it. It needs to be blown out. Get rid of it.

    Get something looks nice PCGS 69 AGB - gold coins close to melt on way up - numismatic coins drifting down (fewer collectors).

    After huge retail sale on some currency, I bought some mod $5 Commems (from dealer set up next to me) Autumn Houston show NGC MS PF 69 for $320 (fantaststic coins) each they now melt for $315. Super deal for me. They were also blowing out big collection of CSA /obsoletes ( currency market on fire!) picked up a few of these.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The swirl in the video clip needs to be slower for me.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think that the grader spotted some very slight rub or color break, and assigned the coin a "slider" grade.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    RayboRaybo Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What was the price of gold 4 years ago, $1200?
    How's about 2012?

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    BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017 7:44AM

    @Weiss said:

    I thought the coin deserved at least a 63. Much of what looks like dings are frost breaks.

    Or at least, I think it would deserve a 63 if it weren't for this one thing.

    This one thing that our hosts caught, even back in their infancy. This one thing that it took me probably a week of head scratching and analyzing until I finally saw it. When I finally stopped seeing what I thought I saw and started seeing what I actually saw.

    And once you see it, you can't unsee it.

    The black thing, the scratches on the sun, all the little tics? The issue of either flattish strike or wear?

    61 seems about right. If not generous.

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a 62 all day, and I've seen plenty of 63s that have more ticks. Or it would be a 62/63, if not for the BORE HOLE above the eagle's wrist. The first two images above are accurate for how the coin looks in hand. It's pretty, lots of surface frost, good color.
    The close-up above is using extremely harsh light to show the depth of the hole. And on my screen at least, it's 11" across.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I saw that on the picture in the OP.... was wondering what it was.....I wonder why it was done? And in such a spot? Test maybe? Anyway... 61/62..... Cheers, RickO

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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    I saw that on the picture in the OP.... was wondering what it was.....I wonder why it was done? And in such a spot? Test maybe? Anyway... 61/62..... Cheers, RickO

    Head scratcher for sure. It has the characteristics of a drill mark / trifoil chop mark. And that's what I'm choosing to believe it is. That's a lot more romantic than "damage". I have seen zillions of chopmarked silver coins, but very, very few chopmarked gold coins. It's of the right era, we know Saints were used overseas. It looks very similar to the one shown in this thread from 2013:

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11752018

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That certainly is a reasonable explanation.... nice of them to put it in a non-obvious location.... Cheers, RickO

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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017 10:22AM

    @Weiss Are you planning to resubmit this Borehole $20 Saint to PCGS to have them buy it back for the Grading Guarantee?

    It’s obviously an Altered coin that should not qualify for their Certified Numeric Grading.


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    WeissWeiss Posts: 9,935 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Stuart said:
    @Weiss Are you planning to resubmit this Borehole $20 Saint to PCGS to have them buy it back for the Grading Guarantee?

    It’s obviously an Altered coin that should not qualify for their Certified Numeric Grading.

    Nope. I think the coin merits the somewhat unusual grade of 61. I think the graders saw a mid-grade unc with a single, tiny but unusually deep mark in an inconspicuous place, and graded it accordingly.

    Now if I could resubmit it and be sure it would come back "MS61 (or MS62) Chopmark", I would in a heartbeat--even if it meant the loss of the rattler.

    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
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    StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 15, 2017 10:37AM

    @Weiss I’m glad that you like your Saint as is. - It’s an interesting conversation piece.

    I like coins with an interesting story. - Maybe the hole was bored by a tiny “Gold Bug” :)


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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    ashelandasheland Posts: 22,694 ✭✭✭✭✭

    At least a 62 today. Cool pickup!

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