Appreciating James A Stack
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
tradedollarnut
Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
This is a nice article. Thanks for the post. Here's the direct link:
I love this coin and am glad PCGS was able to reattach the Stack provenance.
Thanks for the link TDN.
That 1797 looks great. It appears to have nice luster. I think it was recently down crossed from NGC MS64 to PCGS MS62.
From the March 1975 sale I'm surprised they didn't mention his superb gem 1873-cc NA quarter....finest known of approx 5....and by far the highest price realized of that sale ($80,000). The 1838-0 half was in 2nd place at $50,000. There weren't all that many 5 figure coins back then....great coins were still very cheap. Many of the coins from that sale cost 50X more today. Of note is that from the Stack sale to the coin market peak in spring 1980, many of the best James Stack coins appreciated a whopping 10X-20X (5 yrs). It was the James Stack sale in1975 that really got me interested in going after condition census seated quarters.
With all the Stack's catalogs on the Newman Numismatic Portal you can review much of the collection.
It is cool to try and find the coins on coinfacts, kind of a "where are they now".
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The 1820 double eagle in PCGS MS66 is incredible.
Doesn't appear that the 1796 still has the sea-green and iridescent toning described back in 1975.
The 1842 SD 25c proof brought a hefty $41,000 back in 1975, the 3rd highest price of the sale....about 7.5X more than the gem 1901-s 25c (MS67 today). They are much closer in price today.
I can confirm that the JA Stack 1797 quarter was downgraded/crossed from NGC 64 to PCGS 62. I did this on behalf of a sophisticated collector. He also owns the 1873CC NA 25c from the same sale mentioned by RR which now resides is a PCGS 66 holder. The quarter is eagle is beautiful, original, and obviously very rare. The 2 coins in the PCGS Pop report at this grade level are the same coin pictured in this thread.
Excellent article that puts in perspective just how major a collection it was. Being sold over a twenty year span makes me wonder if it was because different parts went to different heirs or the owner just thought that was the best way. I have had all or most of those catalogs for a while.
Had forgotten that it must have been put together before 1952 and sat for more than 20 years as he had died in 1951.
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Also, the 1797 Quarter Eagle was used as example in this thread by PCGS to test one of its "VideoViews".
PCGS is Looking for Opinions on "VideoView"
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987072/pcgs-is-looking-for-opinions-on-videoview/p2
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
It would be cool for there to be a PCGS Registry Set for Stack.
Here's Stack's finest known 1801 half dime. I love coins with well placed die cracks
Ron Guth / @CoinKing:
Great note on reattaching the Stack provenance for the 1797 quarter eagle in the blog article. Can you help do the same for the finest known 1801 half dime? This is listed on your PCGS blog article but not on the cert verification page:
@DonWillis @PCGSPhoto I noticed Ron hasn't been on the forums since 2015 so please ask Ron to check this out
As mentioned above, I also think it would be great to have a Stack legacy Registry Set.
Thank you for sharing this.
Fan of the Oxford Comma
CCAC Representative of the General Public
2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
I'll have to bookmark this to read later.
Thanks for posting TDN, I would have missed this.
From the blog:
I bought this special coin because I loved the coin, and it is still one of my favorites after years of ownership. Only recently was I able to connect it back to the James Stack collection from the 3/95 sale. Delighted when that discovery was made.
Great looking coin and history. Looks like that one can be reattached as well.
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/30039284
Actually, I was just thinking that it would be great if PCGS could make pedigrees searchable in PCGS CoinFacts. In cert verification, pedigrees could be clickable like the Pop and Price Guide value.
The following from the blog article can also have their Stack pedigrees reattached.
The 1838-O Half Dollar – PCGS PR64BM from the article is pedigreed to GR-1 but not Stack yet:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/60051696
The 1796 large cent is pedigreed to Holmes but not Stack yet:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/13666680
The 1894-S dime from the article is pedigreed to Eliasberg but not Stack yet:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/25202431
The Stack 1820 half eagle, curl base 2 large T letters in MS66 from the article is not pedigreed yet.
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/09867952
Here's the TrueView for the 1842 proof quarter from @Eagleeye's post above which is also not attached yet:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/28730387
Cool, so how do we go about reattaching the pedigree? Anyone have Ron's email address?
There are 7 Stack coins here, 5 from the blog article, that do not currently have the Stack pedigree and can be reattached.
Ron is @CoinKing here but hasn't been active for a while. He is responding to comments on the blog article so hopefully he can be reached to help reattach these, and come back to the forums!
http://www.pcgsblog.com/ron-guth/news/rediscovering-the-james-a-stack-sr-collection
I only bid on one Lot in the January 1990 Stack's The James A Stack, Sr. Collection of United States Coins, a lovely About Uncirculated 1799 B-10, BB-163 Draped Bust, Heraldic Eagle Silver Dollar. It was Lot 417 in this sale, and was plated in both Black & White and in Color (Color Plates were all together in the front of this sale catalog). This coin was of course "raw" as this was the way Stack's sold the majority of their Lots at this time. I was unable to attend the sale in NY in person and I used an agent to view the lot and bid for me in the sale.
The price realized was $4,400, the most I'd ever spent on a coin at this time. I never regretted the purchase price.
I was collecting the early dollars 1794 to 1803 by die marriage at this time, with a heavy focus on the die marriages of 1795 and 1798. This coin fit my collecting criteria - I liked / like coins with strong eye appeal and pedigrees to the more famous collectors in the past. James A. Stack fit this criteria.
This Lot was housed in a white Capital Plastic Holder, with the lot tag taped to the holder box.
I brought this coin to the 2008 ANA Convention in Baltimore. I handed the coin and a $100 bill to PCGS, and it came back (at the show) graded PCGS AU55. I thought it would grade AU58.
I sold it to Dr. Hesselgesser at the 2008 ANA Convention in Baltimore if my notes are correct. I sold it for strong PCGS AU58 money in the AU55 holder, and it later was upgraded to PCGS AU58. It was sold at Public Auction by the Goldberg's in September 2011 as Lot 5092, and it was now "CAC Approved."
I miss this coin, and thank @tradedollarnut for bringing back good memories. Thanks BM!
Here are some photos. The B&W Photo was taken by the ANA for a class I taught on the early dollars at the Summer Seminar.
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Photos courtesy of the ANA and W. David Perkins
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Photos courtesy of Stack's and the Newman Numsmatic Portal.
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W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
It's worth a shot, I just posted a comment following the blog post.
@Zoins that 1796 Large cent is utterly magnificent..
I found the following interesting:
If PCGS lists, or knows of, a pedigree for a coin, can someone have PCGS remove it from Cert Verification?
@Zoins noted, "There are 7 Stack coins here, 5 from the blog article, that do not currently have the Stack pedigree and can be reattached."
While not included in the PCGS Blog article, your posting got me thinking. I looked through the 1799 Dollar photos on PCGS and found the 1799 B-10, BB-163 Dollar I purchased from the James A. Stack Sale in 1990 (see my above posting and photos) and later sold to Dr. Hesselgesser.
This coin is now graded PCGS AU58+ (from PCGS AU58 CAC). If Ron is reading this he can add the James A. Stack pedigree to this 1799 Dollar (PCGS serial number 16294686).
Thanks @Zoins!
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Photo courtesy of PCGS.
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
The dollars in the 1990 sale were not from James Stack. The catalog calls them "A Southwestern Collection."
Ed. S.
(EJS)
As @Aegis3 noted:
from
https://archive.org/stream/jamesastacksrcol1990stac#page/n27/mode/2up
Which suggests the question - did James A. Stack have bust dollars which were sold in some other auction?
Ron Guth's list of auctions does not include bust dollars.
The March 1995 sale seems to be the one. Tho we are talking about a total of four coins. That is probably telling me something, but I'm not sure what.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
James A. Stack, a hall-of-fame condition crank.
I would love to have a Stack coin........but I think a cent might have been beneath his dignity????
OINK
Apparently so, given the high grade specimens. Too bad they are not labelled explicitly as being from his collection.
The James A. Stack set of dimes auctioned in January 1990 were magnificent. So were the prices. Interesting that some of those coins actually downgraded since then. My number one want out of that sale was his "gem" 1853-0 arrows dime. I had been looking for one of those in true unc for over 10 yrs. Being overly fussy, I graded the coin 64+ ($6K-$8K) due to some questions about the surfaces looking somewhat PL or lightly cleaned/wiped. It was just a strange look for a generally weakly struck date that should never come any way but fully satiny or blasty. I got out bid easily as a couple dealers saw the coin as a lock 65 or better. Jay Miller bought the coin for a bit over $12K (really cheap imo). His grade from NGC was MS66! He flipped the coin to Bruce Amspacher for $23,500, a nice day at the office. Bruce, preferring PCGS holders, cracked it out and sent it to PCGS....grading out as MS65. No doubt lost a lot on that move. The coin is probably still the finest known though. Not aware of one better as the date doesn't come nice. It's likely not currently pedigreed to the Stack collection either.
One "blunder" of that sale was some "idiot" buying a gem 1859-0 dime for $13,750....requiring a MS66 grade to bail them out. The "O" in ONE on the reverse was gouged out in the center with a sharp tool (ie tooling). In my mind a MS64 coin. The catalog mentioned it too. The coin still graded NGC MS66 and no doubt sold sight-unseen for solid MS66 money ($15K-$20K). A fully raw collection and the market was hot.
Looks like a match, now back at MS-66.
Black and white photo from Stack's catalog, Newman Numismatic Portal
https://archive.org/stream/jamesastacksrcol1990stac#page/41/mode/1up
Color photo from
pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/4604
Was in Eugene Gardner's collection as MS-65 and sold for $10,575 in Oct. 2014 (Stack pedigree was not mentioned in the item description).
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dimes/1853-o-10c-arrows-ms65-pcgs-fortin-107/a/1214-98254.s
Currently in Tom Bender registry set.
https://pcgs.com/cert/25672455
I think numismatics is the greatest thing we have. Who doesn't love the giants and respect what they hold in high esteem ?
From the end of Ron Guth's article:
I wonder why the pedigree would be stripped intentionally?
Perhaps it is because some of the coins were sold near the 1989 market peak, and the values have declined since that peak? (This would be in the theme of reporting mostly positive messages in an auction description).
Like @yosclimber, I wonder what Ron was thinking of when he wrote this:
From the end of Ron Guth's article:
As desirable as the James A. Stack pedigree remains today, there are many instances where his name has been stripped, intentionally or otherwise, from the ownership chains.
I would guess that the James A. Stack pedigree, and many other pedigrees, "got lost" over time as the coins were slabbed. Most PCGS and other holders didn't have pedigrees included on the holder labels in the 1990s and still don't today. Even when they do include a pedigree many times it is not the full pedigree as there is not enough space for this on the label.
On the other hand, it sure is fun when you discover a nice pedigree for a coin that you own (for example, by "plate matching")!
I just sold this 1798 B-16, BB-110 Draped Bust Dollar in PCGS AU55 from the Warren Miller Collection. The holder has only the Miller Pedigree on the label. Miller bought this coin raw from Larry Hanks at the 1991 CSNS Show. In 2006 a friend and I identified it as the Bolender Specimen, with the obverse being the plate coin in Milferd H. Bolender's (1950) reference book The United States Early Silver Dollars from 1794 to 1803. Upon learning this, I was able to add the Ostheimer pedigree, sold privately to the Goldberg's and sold in their 1975 A.N.A. Sale. Alfred and Jacque Ostheimer had one of the great early dollar and silver dollar collections at one time.
It is the second finest known example of this very rare die marriage and is also a beautiful coin. And has a neat obverse die crack.
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Photo courtesy of PCGS and W. David Perkins.
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
I sure am enjoying this thread and appreciate all the sleuthing!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Thread Revival #1
Here's a great James A. Stack Sr. coin recently added to TDN's collection. It's fitting that TDN started this thread.
Read more here: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1020499/a-my-oh-my-newp#latest
This is missing the pedigree on Cert Validation though it's mentioned on CoinFacts:
I was the caretaker of my James Stack Icon coin for 18 yrs. And thankfully, this was one Stack coin that never lost the pedigree. When I sold it in 2004 I made sure the complete list of owners (to my best knowledge) was kept intact. Probably no one else knew it. Graded "pristine gem" in the 1975 sale it was one of the "sleepers" of the sale as back then the date was not recognized like the S mint no motto quarters were. But some of us knew. The 1849-0 quarter was one of the most coveted dates back then, and the Stack coin was graded as choice Unc - near gem. Boy was I disappointed, the coin had scuffy obverse fields and missing luster....I graded it AU. It certainly didn't realize the price of a choice unc. The joke was on me though....today it's a MS64. The 71-cc PL gem was another monster fetching around $10K iirc. The 1865-s brought the most for a seated S mint at around $2800.
Not many of the early S or O mints were really choice or superb as I would have hoped. I recall 59-0, 65-s, 67-s, 91-o seated quarters as the only MS stunners. The 71cc and 73cc NA were killers too. I was hoping to pick off a choice unc 42-o sd, 43-0, 47-0, 51-o, 52-o, 58-o, 60-s, 61-s, 64-s, 66-s, 71-s, 72-s. They were all circulated. But even having nearly a dozen to die for key date seated quarters was something to marvel at. Very few of them have even been surpassed today. They have remained as finest known for 45 yrs.
I was surprised Akers bought the gem 1865-s, 1901-s, 1904-0 superb gem quarters yet left the much cheaper (and rarer) 1867-s alone. The Kleinmans of NY City bought the 67-s for $1800. One of the top 5-10 of all rarer date gem MS seated quarters of any date when considered as an overall package imo. Go find another. About 80% white and imo totally un-messed with surfaces. The rims were charcoal black back in 1975...and unchanged since. I'd have been able to buy the 67-s out of the Stack sale if it weren't superb. I had no clue how to price it. I settled on 3X Red Book Unc pricing - which was 50% too low. Had the coin only been "choice" I'd have owned it. Took another 11 yrs when my next "reasonable" chance to own it occurred. And I took it...getting it for 35% under my max bid.
The 1865-s that Akers bought for Paramount's inventory was a "twin" to the 67-s in appearance and quality. I don't recall it ever showing up again in its original pristine state. If it's one of the MS66's currently graded, it doesn't have the same look it did from the 1975 JAS auction (ie mostly white with the same black rims). One would think both coins were purchased from a bank or the mint....and kept together for 108 yrs.
Zions, this coin is still registered to JRCSLM32. Do you know if he sold his set or just the 1796?
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I noticed that as well and don't know the answer. I would ask @specialist as she handled the sale.
Thread Revival #2
Thanks to @mr1874 for posting this coin in another thread which lead me to look up it's full provenance.
1894-S Dime - PCGS PR66BM POP 3/2/0 - Ex Clapp, Eliasberg, Stack
Here's James Stack's 1894-S Dime, graded PCGS PR66BM. It's a top pop 2/0 of a total of 10 specimens, with only 5 graded by PCGS.
Here's the provenance from CoinFacts. Great @wondercoin provenance!
And thanks to @BestGerman for writing the blog article and @tradedollarnut for posting it here!
Interesting old thread by trade dollar nut. His contributions here are always good but where is he lately? Hope he's o.k.
Not sure, but I hope he's enjoying his time away from the forums.
I wonder if he's planning a bid for the Virgil Brand 1804 Class 1 dollar? It would be great to reunite it with his Virgil Brand 1794 SP66 dollar! Imagine those two in the same collection again after all these years?
I still remember receiving the James Stack auction catalog in the mail in 1975 and falling in love with the 1871-CC and 1873-CC No Arrows Quarters. I was 15 and didn't have anywhere close to enough money to play, but I would have killed for those coins. In 1988, I got to own the 73-CC for a little while. Would love to get that one back one day!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Andy,
I bought the 73-CC NA 25c in the 1990's from Jay Parrino on behalf of a customer. It still resides in his collection today.
Beautiful, original coin currently graded PCGS 66
I hope he's older than me!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Andy, surely it was an oversight to have omitted either the word “much”, “considerably” or “way” before “older”.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Absolute Perfection
That coin’s so pretty it makes me want to cry. Gorgeous!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And the 76 Trade Dollar has a reputation of NOT being particularly attractive. They usually come dark, and rather lifeless. This one bucks the trend, and has to be considered in the top 1%, if not the finest in eye appeal? Is there a better one?
Deleted, as it was off topic.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.