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Did Someone Here Buy This Toned Peace Dollar at Great Collections?

KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited September 25, 2017 5:06PM in U.S. Coin Forum
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Comments

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's one heck of a cat's eye

    The more you VAM..
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Reminds me of crème brûlée.

  • NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭

    Colors!

    Numismatics & Photography
    rv@ravenumismatics.com
    Instagram.com/coin2photo

  • KyleKyle Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ianrussell Did you get a chance to look at this one in hand?

    Successful BST Transactions With: tonedase, streg2, airplanenut, coindeuce, vibr0nic, natetrook, Shrub68, golden, Lakesammman, drddm, Ilikecolor, CoinJunkie, wondercoin, lablover
  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The color progression is good. Seldom seen on Peace Dollars, sure, but it does happen.

    The more you VAM..
  • Peace_dollar88Peace_dollar88 Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow. Beautiful coin. Love the color.

  • GoldbullyGoldbully Posts: 17,342 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So purdy!

  • MorganMan94MorganMan94 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    I realize I will likely get hammered by a number of members for this comment, but isn't this the kind of coin that would have benefited greatly from a CAC sticker? I'm not writing it failed in an attempt or that it wasn't sent in, but these colors on a Peace dollar send up flares for many folks.

    I would agree but we don't know if it has been to CAC or not. My guess is it didn't pass.

  • This content has been removed.
  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ian will only send a coin to CAC if the consignor wants it to go and wait for it to come back. To just assume it has been there is crazy. A lot of consignors don't care and or don't want to wait. And even if it has maybe JA didn't think it was a "solid" 66 and it had nothing to do with the color which is where the premium is at anyway.

    The more you VAM..
  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was watching as I liked this one (but I was not the winning bidder).
    What do others thinks about it going for $2,058 +10%/12.5% (depending on payment method)? Fair price? Too high?

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,794 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I love toned Peace dollars but I wouldn't have any interest in this one with any number of labels or stickers.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice Morgan toner...... Wait what?

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it just me or does it seem there are considerably more wildly toned obverse coins than reverse? Simple percentages would warrant a percentage very close to 50/50. But when you go to the bakery the frosting is always on top

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2017 7:15PM

    @RogerB said:
    Reminds me of crème brûlée.

    Are you saying a torch was involved and was too close?

  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,350 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've seen those colors on many AT'd silver eagles.

  • david3142david3142 Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The peace dollar looks beautiful to me. I wish I'd known about it. I would make an offer to whomever won it!

  • KccoinKccoin Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    She is a looker. Congrats to the cosignor

  • CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,524 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2017 8:00PM

    Guys. This is pure cats eye pattern bag toning. Notice how the top is progressed more than the bottom. That's because of how a cats eye is made. A coin was laying on this one covering the lower part of this coin toning the upper with a crescent then the bag shifted moving that coin and another coin or same coin (for a shorter amount of time) was covering the top allowing the bottom to crescent tone and you get a cats eye, double crescent, pattern. So many doubting Thomas's here.

    Look at the open edge too where the toning meets the edges. See how it's not a straight line on both top and bottom just near the rim, a little squiggly. That's because the coin on top wasn't flush near the rim due to the upset rim allowing the color to seep under the coin a little and creating an imperfect line. The rest had the coin(s) flush on top of this one creating a straight line.

    The more you VAM..
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2017 8:20PM

    @CascadeChris said:
    Guys. This is pure cats eye pattern bag toning. Notice how the top is progressed more than the bottom. That's because of how a cats eye is made. A coin was laying on this one covering the lower part of this coin toning the upper with a crescent then the bag shifted moving that coin and another coin or same coin (for a shorter amount of time) was covering the top allowing the bottom to crescent tone and you get a cats eye, double crescent, pattern. So many doubting Thomas's here.

    Look at the open edge too where the toning meets the edges. See how it's not a straight line on both top and bottom just near the rim, a little squiggly. That's because the coin on top wasn't flush near the rim due to the upset rim allowing the color to seep under the coin a little and creating an imperfect line. The rest had the coin(s) flush on top of this one creating a straight line.

    Smh, there is always a story for those who want (are desperate) to believe. Or it could have toned that way due to different penatration rates for the gasket in the holder when it was put in the Tupperware with the accelerant.

  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭

    @TomB said:
    I realize I will likely get hammered by a number of members for this comment, but isn't this the kind of coin that would have benefited greatly from a CAC sticker? I'm not writing it failed in an attempt or that it wasn't sent in, but these colors on a Peace dollar send up flares for many folks.

    My first thought was of the Anaconda piece from a few years ago. If I recall correctly it was also in the right plastic, for a time.
    What was it that David Hall had to say about toned peace dollars?
    I could be wrong, but I just haven't seen peace dollars with this type of toning in all the years I've been looking that were unquestionably legit.
    JMHO

  • air4mdcair4mdc Posts: 905 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I've looked at a lot of Peace dollars over the years.......
    At first glance I observed AT.......I've seen many many ASE's toned with this color and color progression. Actually purchased a few over the years at spot.
    I would never pay the premium for that toning on a Peace, I would just buy an ASE for 20-22$ with that toning.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    some quick observations with these two coins viewable together tells me that I should at least be cautious when considering if the Peace Dollar is AT/NT. according to 'shag this is a mimic-able pattern and I would remind cascadechris that Peace Dollars were not stored in canvas bags in the fashion of Morgan Dollars.


  • joebb21joebb21 Posts: 4,746 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ive seen this exact color pattern on dozens of AT morgans that are being sold now on the market. I didnt even want to bid since I was 99% sure it is AT. Look on GC at closed morgans from 1883-o, 1884-o 1885-o and you will see tons of these morgans

    may the fonz be with you...always...
  • mt_mslamt_msla Posts: 815 ✭✭✭✭

    I think it's Natural Toning all day long. And all night long. It's natural toning IMO.

    Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on my personal experiments over the years, with many different methods, this coin demonstrates artificial tarnish. The premium paid is - IMO - ridiculous... That being said, if the new owner is happy, than it is a good deal - for that person. It is just so much cheaper to do it yourself to your own coin. Cheers, RickO

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For those that say these are easy to make, can one of you take a picture of a common bu Peace Dollar and then show us that same coin with toning like the coin in the original post? You don't have to tell us how it's done, just show that it's possible.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    to U1chicago, just because we can recognize this as probable AT doesn't mean we know or have tried to make coins like this. the overwhelming majority of us don't practice this type of things for ethical reasons.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone thought it was legit!

    -

  • panexpoguypanexpoguy Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    Someone thought it was legit!

    -

    And if the buyer likes it, then that is all that really matters. And I am sure there are many who would buy it from him/her for a premium. It is beautiful.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2017 6:41AM

    As an owner of many toned Peace dollars, this looks OK to me. I will agree, you do not see many that look like this, but I have seen them and own a couple. The real feat was getting it into the slab. It is recently graded and they have been TOUGH lately.

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    to U1chicago, just because we can recognize this as probable AT doesn't mean we know or have tried to make coins like this. the overwhelming majority of us don't practice this type of things for ethical reasons.

    I'm directly referencing posts like this by @ricko
    "It is just so much cheaper to do it yourself to your own coin."

    I see this type of response all the time and just want one of those people to show the proof. If it was that easy, do we really think someone wouldn't be cranking these out in droves and profiting before the general public notices? While many are ethical, the lure of easy profits would get to someone and we would see a ton of these AT coins. For some reason that is not the case? So is this really AT? Maybe yes and maybe no, but it certainly does not seem to be a pattern that is so easy to recreate that anyone can do it at home.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @U1chicago .... That is exactly the point... the market is flooded with AT coins... Perhaps not exactly like this one....but tarnishing processes vary and the results are rarely identical...similar, yes. I spent a couple of years (2001-2002) testing all sorts of tarnish processes... it was very interesting. I recommend trying it, you will be surprised at what you learn. Cheers, RickO

  • U1chicagoU1chicago Posts: 6,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ricko said:
    @U1chicago .... That is exactly the point... the market is flooded with AT coins... Perhaps not exactly like this one....but tarnishing processes vary and the results are rarely identical...similar, yes. I spent a couple of years (2001-2002) testing all sorts of tarnish processes... it was very interesting. I recommend trying it, you will be surprised at what you learn. Cheers, RickO

    Yes there is a ton of AT material, including a bunch from the "edynamic collection." The vast majority of this (I'd say 90%-95%) is very easy to identify as the colors are way off and most of it is unattractive. That material was done with various heating methods, chemicals, and/or gassing slabs. However, I will stand by the assertion that I have not seen a confirmed AT piece like the Peace Dollar in this thread or Morgans like the ones from the Northern Lights Collection.

  • specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    coin looks pretty. I would only a buy a CAC coin. they can tell the difference. be safe

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    She's a beauty nonetheless.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @panexpoguy said:
    Pretty Peace, but I would have judged it AT if I had been in the market for that. This is what I would look for on a NT Peace. From my experience, this is what NT with color looks like on most Peace $, and this did CAC.

    Nice! Here is the most radical NT bag toner I have ever seen that also CACed:

  • cnncoinscnncoins Posts: 414 ✭✭✭✭

    I was the underbidder at $2008 hammer. I was sniped with less than a minute to go in the sale. I had the coin in hand and it is beautiful! I've seen hundreds of thousands of AT coins over the years, but I am confident (confident enough to bid on it), that the toning was natural.

  • jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't like the toning.

  • panexpoguypanexpoguy Posts: 1,239 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @panexpoguy said:
    Pretty Peace, but I would have judged it AT if I had been in the market for that. This is what I would look for on a NT Peace. From my experience, this is what NT with color looks like on most Peace $, and this did CAC.

    Nice! Here is the most radical NT bag toner I have ever seen that also CACed:

    That is a great piece that combines the vibrant colors of the OP coin with the splotchy color distribution that I am comfortable with. Seen in hand opinions trump pictures anyday.

  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do some here think that someone would take a really high grade peace dollar and take a chance that the AT would turn out??? NT all the way.

    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That amazes me that someone can do this artificially. I would not even begin to fathom how it could be done, 'cept putting it in a canvass bag for the next 100 years.

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • No HeadlightsNo Headlights Posts: 2,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The amazing thing is so many collectors believe that more than a tiny minority are NT. Where were they before the last few years? The best coin doctors can preform amazing (and disconcerting) results. AT wouldn't make them even break a sweat imo

  • MonsterCoinzMonsterCoinz Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The colors are consistent with a lot of Morgans I've seen on GC over the past few years. Even some ASE's and Merc's. They all look the same. The thick baby blue section, no pull-away, 8XXXXXX cert number.. it doesn't add up for me.

    www.MonsterCoinz.com | My Toned Showcase

    Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @RogerB said:
    Reminds me of crème brûlée.

    Are you saying a torch was involved and was too close?

    The radial pattern of surface color suggests - not necessarily proves - that a localized artificial heat source was applied to the coin. The apparent intensity of color bands also suggests rapid development of refractive films resulting in weak colors. Compare to the bag toned example where time allowed much more of the surface metal to be affected.

    (My opinion is that I would not buy the coin at anything other than FMV for the condition.)

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