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Did Someone Here Buy This Toned Peace Dollar at Great Collections?
Kyle
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That's one heck of a cat's eye
Reminds me of crème brûlée.
Colors!
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I realize I will likely get hammered by a number of members for this comment, but isn't this the kind of coin that would have benefited greatly from a CAC sticker? I'm not writing it failed in an attempt or that it wasn't sent in, but these colors on a Peace dollar send up flares for many folks.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@ianrussell Did you get a chance to look at this one in hand?
The color progression is good. Seldom seen on Peace Dollars, sure, but it does happen.
Wow. Beautiful coin. Love the color.
So purdy!
I would agree but we don't know if it has been to CAC or not. My guess is it didn't pass.
Ian will only send a coin to CAC if the consignor wants it to go and wait for it to come back. To just assume it has been there is crazy. A lot of consignors don't care and or don't want to wait. And even if it has maybe JA didn't think it was a "solid" 66 and it had nothing to do with the color which is where the premium is at anyway.
I was watching as I liked this one (but I was not the winning bidder).
What do others thinks about it going for $2,058 +10%/12.5% (depending on payment method)? Fair price? Too high?
I love toned Peace dollars but I wouldn't have any interest in this one with any number of labels or stickers.
Nice Morgan toner...... Wait what?
Is it just me or does it seem there are considerably more wildly toned obverse coins than reverse? Simple percentages would warrant a percentage very close to 50/50. But when you go to the bakery the frosting is always on top
Are you saying a torch was involved and was too close?
I've seen those colors on many AT'd silver eagles.
The peace dollar looks beautiful to me. I wish I'd known about it. I would make an offer to whomever won it!
She is a looker. Congrats to the cosignor
Guys. This is pure cats eye pattern bag toning. Notice how the top is progressed more than the bottom. That's because of how a cats eye is made. A coin was laying on this one covering the lower part of this coin toning the upper with a crescent then the bag shifted moving that coin and another coin or same coin (for a shorter amount of time) was covering the top allowing the bottom to crescent tone and you get a cats eye, double crescent, pattern. So many doubting Thomas's here.
Look at the open edge too where the toning meets the edges. See how it's not a straight line on both top and bottom just near the rim, a little squiggly. That's because the coin on top wasn't flush near the rim due to the upset rim allowing the color to seep under the coin a little and creating an imperfect line. The rest had the coin(s) flush on top of this one creating a straight line.
I realize CascadeChris appears to like this coin and believes the toning genuine, but I am on the other side of the line. Please note that I am neither attempting to convince CascadeChris that I am correct, nor am I attempting to convince anyone else that the coin is AT. I also have no issue with what we term cat's eye toning and agree that coins do tone that way naturally. However, my experience tells me that there isn't much wiggle room with respect to this coin and that the coin is AT.
This is why I brought up CAC previously; in today's market there will be coins that have experienced, reasonable and educated folks coming to starkly different conclusions and a CAC sticker can definitely help allay lingering doubts as well as increase value or liquidity. PCGS does a fabulous job, CAC has carved out a terrific niche and I am just a single person who has analytically studied coins for decades. In the end my opinion matters little, if any, to the broader market, but on a coin like this it might be comforting to see both PCGS and CAC agree.
Again, I also realize that the coin may have never made the trip to NJ and that it might subsequently do so and show up with a sticker. This is just my opinion based upon my experience and the images provided.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Smh, there is always a story for those who want (are desperate) to believe. Or it could have toned that way due to different penatration rates for the gasket in the holder when it was put in the Tupperware with the accelerant.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
My first thought was of the Anaconda piece from a few years ago. If I recall correctly it was also in the right plastic, for a time.
What was it that David Hall had to say about toned peace dollars?
I could be wrong, but I just haven't seen peace dollars with this type of toning in all the years I've been looking that were unquestionably legit.
JMHO
I've looked at a lot of Peace dollars over the years.......
At first glance I observed AT.......I've seen many many ASE's toned with this color and color progression. Actually purchased a few over the years at spot.
I would never pay the premium for that toning on a Peace, I would just buy an ASE for 20-22$ with that toning.
some quick observations with these two coins viewable together tells me that I should at least be cautious when considering if the Peace Dollar is AT/NT. according to 'shag this is a mimic-able pattern and I would remind cascadechris that Peace Dollars were not stored in canvas bags in the fashion of Morgan Dollars.
Pretty Peace, but I would have judged it AT if I had been in the market for that. This is what I would look for on a NT Peace. From my experience, this is what NT with color looks like on most Peace $, and this did CAC.
Ive seen this exact color pattern on dozens of AT morgans that are being sold now on the market. I didnt even want to bid since I was 99% sure it is AT. Look on GC at closed morgans from 1883-o, 1884-o 1885-o and you will see tons of these morgans
I think it's Natural Toning all day long. And all night long. It's natural toning IMO.
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
This is one of the most astute observations about this toner craze. I've seen plenty of reverse toner Morgans, but it's maybe 5:1 (or even 10:1) in favor of obverse toners. I suppose it's possible the reverse toners just aren't promoted/available as the others...... but I doubt it.
As for this Peace dollar, I can't say with absolute confidence that it's AT, but it isn't acceptable to my market.
Based on my personal experiments over the years, with many different methods, this coin demonstrates artificial tarnish. The premium paid is - IMO - ridiculous... That being said, if the new owner is happy, than it is a good deal - for that person. It is just so much cheaper to do it yourself to your own coin. Cheers, RickO
For those that say these are easy to make, can one of you take a picture of a common bu Peace Dollar and then show us that same coin with toning like the coin in the original post? You don't have to tell us how it's done, just show that it's possible.
to U1chicago, just because we can recognize this as probable AT doesn't mean we know or have tried to make coins like this. the overwhelming majority of us don't practice this type of things for ethical reasons.
Someone thought it was legit!
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And if the buyer likes it, then that is all that really matters. And I am sure there are many who would buy it from him/her for a premium. It is beautiful.
As an owner of many toned Peace dollars, this looks OK to me. I will agree, you do not see many that look like this, but I have seen them and own a couple. The real feat was getting it into the slab. It is recently graded and they have been TOUGH lately.
I'm directly referencing posts like this by @ricko
"It is just so much cheaper to do it yourself to your own coin."
I see this type of response all the time and just want one of those people to show the proof. If it was that easy, do we really think someone wouldn't be cranking these out in droves and profiting before the general public notices? While many are ethical, the lure of easy profits would get to someone and we would see a ton of these AT coins. For some reason that is not the case? So is this really AT? Maybe yes and maybe no, but it certainly does not seem to be a pattern that is so easy to recreate that anyone can do it at home.
@U1chicago .... That is exactly the point... the market is flooded with AT coins... Perhaps not exactly like this one....but tarnishing processes vary and the results are rarely identical...similar, yes. I spent a couple of years (2001-2002) testing all sorts of tarnish processes... it was very interesting. I recommend trying it, you will be surprised at what you learn. Cheers, RickO
Yes there is a ton of AT material, including a bunch from the "edynamic collection." The vast majority of this (I'd say 90%-95%) is very easy to identify as the colors are way off and most of it is unattractive. That material was done with various heating methods, chemicals, and/or gassing slabs. However, I will stand by the assertion that I have not seen a confirmed AT piece like the Peace Dollar in this thread or Morgans like the ones from the Northern Lights Collection.
coin looks pretty. I would only a buy a CAC coin. they can tell the difference. be safe
She's a beauty nonetheless.
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Nice! Here is the most radical NT bag toner I have ever seen that also CACed:
I was the underbidder at $2008 hammer. I was sniped with less than a minute to go in the sale. I had the coin in hand and it is beautiful! I've seen hundreds of thousands of AT coins over the years, but I am confident (confident enough to bid on it), that the toning was natural.
I don't like the toning.
That is a great piece that combines the vibrant colors of the OP coin with the splotchy color distribution that I am comfortable with. Seen in hand opinions trump pictures anyday.
Do some here think that someone would take a really high grade peace dollar and take a chance that the AT would turn out??? NT all the way.
bob
Yes, of course I believe someone would take a high grade Peace dollar and attempt to enhance it with color. The coin is a $300-$400 coin when untoned and sold for over $2k with color. Pretty good reason to do it, in my opinion. Obviously, you would learn on other coins, but when comfortable would move to better ROI.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
That amazes me that someone can do this artificially. I would not even begin to fathom how it could be done, 'cept putting it in a canvass bag for the next 100 years.
bob
The amazing thing is so many collectors believe that more than a tiny minority are NT. Where were they before the last few years? The best coin doctors can preform amazing (and disconcerting) results. AT wouldn't make them even break a sweat imo
The colors are consistent with a lot of Morgans I've seen on GC over the past few years. Even some ASE's and Merc's. They all look the same. The thick baby blue section, no pull-away, 8XXXXXX cert number.. it doesn't add up for me.
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The radial pattern of surface color suggests - not necessarily proves - that a localized artificial heat source was applied to the coin. The apparent intensity of color bands also suggests rapid development of refractive films resulting in weak colors. Compare to the bag toned example where time allowed much more of the surface metal to be affected.
(My opinion is that I would not buy the coin at anything other than FMV for the condition.)