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1796 NS quarter eagle

I just saw this, and as I have seen or even owned all of them, I would like to write my comments. Would be great btw to have some kind of wikipedia where qualified editors could add content.

http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/7645

The 1796 PCGS 62+ that is referred now as a PCGS favorite and problem free coin is AU 58 (heavy hairlined) at the Liberty side and beautiful MS 65 at the eagle side. It came from a PCGS AU 58 holder in 1999 and got upgraded to PCGS 62. PCGS 61+ would seem a fair grade to me. The coin is beautiful and lustrous but in no way problem free.

The 1796 PCGS 62 ex Pogue is a coin that I would very much prefer over the PCGS 62+ as it really is problem free and it really is unc on both sides and not cleaned and not hairlined.

There is one I just found in Berlin, that also really looks unc, in case its not cleaned:
http://ikmk.smb.museum/object?id=18259689

The Harry Bass coin looks beautiful and is probably the one at PCGS coinfacts estimaed grade 64.
http://hbrf.org/coin-collection/coin/hbcc-3002/

The PCGS 65 coin is a real unc and fully original coin and in my opinion also much nicer than the Pogue coin.
I didnt see the Bass coin, could be that the Bass coin is more attractive than the PCGS 65.

Everything else I have seen looked AU to me, including the NGC 63 coin.

If I would grade them strict, I would grade:

The PCGS 65 is MS 63 (the coin was called choice BU in 1995 at the Stacks auction)
The PCGS 62+ is AU 58 (the coin was graded AU 58 by PCGS in 1999)
The PCGS 62 is MS 60 (the coin was called BU when it was auctioned in 1999 at stacks)
everything else (other than Bass and maybe the Berlin coin) is AU.

Comments

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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a glorious AU58 PCGS CAC hidden away in a unknown mid west collection. has gorgeous original toning. it was placed there in 2008. sorry, didn't care for the Pogue coin.

    these are such cool coins

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coins... I just like gold...Thanks for the links.. Cheers, RickO

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    earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I own a PCGS 61 with a gold CAC. The coin is beautiful but not as nice as the Pogue coin in my opinion. it has sold three times in the past 11 years. I bought it out of a StacksBowers auction in 2015. I don't see any wear on it. I would like the views of others on my coin. The toning and the luster are great. I believe it is right up there in the CC. The market also thinks so given it has sold for more than any other PCGS MS61 and any NGC example regardless of the grade. My coin is in the link below:

    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1A3C7

    The perspective that PRC provides on the 62+ is very interesting as i cannot grade coins with the precision of the grading services. Grading such an important coin with two sides that are so vastly different seems very challenging to me.

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oliver,
    John Dannreuther is the go-to active numismatist with the deepest knowledge of the Bass Sylloge. He also has 40 years of direct and intimate familiarity with many of the coins you now treasure. His knowledge is a vital resource. Do not cheat yourself by not availing yourself of his expertise. I've been following many of the same coins for the same amount of time, and marvel at what he has to share.

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    @ColonelJessup said:
    Oliver,
    John Dannreuther is the go-to active numismatist with the deepest knowledge of the Bass Sylloge. He also has 40 years of direct and intimate familiarity with many of the coins you now treasure. His knowledge is a vital resource. Do not cheat yourself by not availing yourself of his expertise. I've been following many of the same coins for the same amount of time, and marvel at what he has to share.

    Sure I always listen to experienced people and try to learn from them, thats how I got here. All the current grades make sense, just the 62+ and the 62 are off, also value wise, as the 62+ is a 500k USD coin and the 62 a 900k USD coin. The 62 should be 63 and the 62+ should be 62.
    The whole situation is much worse with the Chain cents as coins formerly AU 55 are now PCGS 65 and they still are AU.

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    @earlyAurum said:
    I own a PCGS 61 with a gold CAC. The coin is beautiful but not as nice as the Pogue coin in my opinion. it has sold three times in the past 11 years. I bought it out of a StacksBowers auction in 2015. I don't see any wear on it. I would like the views of others on my coin. The toning and the luster are great. I believe it is right up there in the CC. The market also thinks so given it has sold for more than any other PCGS MS61 and any NGC example regardless of the grade. My coin is in the link below:

    https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1A3C7

    The perspective that PRC provides on the 62+ is very interesting as i cannot grade coins with the precision of the grading services. Grading such an important coin with two sides that are so vastly different seems very challenging to me.

    I looked at the coin again and I agree that is more unc than all others I have seen including the NGC 63, that is really AU. I liked the coin, it has light rub at the high points but I couldnt see real wear at the photos.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭


    I'll throw this one out there. It used to be an NGC MS-61. Now it is an NGC MS-62. My grade is MS-60. Going by the pictures I think that it's better than the NGC MS-63. It is certainly a sharper strike. Although the Bass coin has better surfaces, the black spots on the obverse would bug me.

    As for the PCGS Mint State graded pieces, they are probably all better than mine, but I could not have afforded them. This is best I could have done with the resources I have.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    There is a glorious AU58 PCGS CAC hidden away in a unknown mid west collection. has gorgeous original toning. it was placed there in 2008. sorry, didn't care for the Pogue coin.

    these are such cool coins

    Perhaps the coin imaged above is the AU you are talking about.

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    earlyAurumearlyAurum Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:

    I'll throw this one out there. It used to be an NGC MS-61. Now it is an NGC MS-62. My grade is MS-60. Going by the pictures I think that it's better than the NGC MS-63. It is certainly a sharper strike. Although the Bass coin has better surfaces, the black spots on the obverse would bug me.

    As for the PCGS Mint State graded pieces, they are probably all better than mine, but I could not have afforded them. This is best I could have done with the resources I have.

    Bill,
    I like your coin. Better strike than mine and the luster seem all there. I will have to disagree with you about the black spots on the obverse of the Bass coin. I could easily live with them. The surfaces seem to be outstanding. Of course, it would all come down to price but it appears to be in the top 3 if not top 2 with PRC's being the best.

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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    seems like too many people are pounding their chests here. of course the guy w/the NGC NON CAC coin is back to thumping his-with NO knowledge of the other really nice coins out there.

    any 1796 needs to be rated in hand and not via any image. most have been mishandled

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    seems like too many people are pounding their chests here. of course the guy w/the NGC NON CAC coin is back to thumping his-with NO knowledge of the other really nice coins out there.

    any 1796 needs to be rated in hand and not via any image. most have been mishandled

    That comment is really out of bounds. It's the first time I've been called ignorant on these boards after 23 thousand posts. I made no claim that my coin is equal to than any of the other coins cited here, yet this person decides to single me out for his venom.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?

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