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What's with all the PNG guys on Ebay using reserves.

CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

Last few coins that were ending soon and I was interested had "reserve not met."

Man up fellas or go to your safe space.

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017 5:41PM

    Don't like to play the price is right.

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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't blame them in this market. At least they take the ethical approach and set true reserves rather than trying to shill the auctions up like a lot of other notorious eBay sellers do. If anything, it gives me more respect. If the coins don't move, they'll eventually drop the price or move it to another venue.

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    GluggoGluggo Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I imagine they been loosing money and decided to try a different approach. Your just going to have to be more patient or maybe contact them and see if they will come down in price. Part of the fun is waiting just for the right one!

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    logger7logger7 Posts: 8,078 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If 100 top sellers offered a group of good for grade certified coins, even cac stickered on ebay letting "the market" decide, they would lose their shirts with many of the items going below their cost. There is no way you can take those chances on ebay. And with raw coins you will take even a bigger beating usually on ebay, with a few exceptions.

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2017 7:00PM

    Ebay has charged a significant fee for reserve auctions. I suspect that they are waived for the PNG guys.

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    AstroJoeAstroJoe Posts: 304 ✭✭✭

    "The market" does decide on the price of a coin. And always does. If a coin has a book value of $100 and it only gets $75;
    That is the Market value for that coin at that particular time. If more than one is offered and $75 is the price most will pay, well then the book value has to adjust to $75. If the seller paid $90 for the coin, and they have a choice to sell it at $75 they would take a loss (but free up capital), or wait until 'the market" deems that the coin is worth buying at $100 (which could be years, and tying up money in inventory). It's part of business.

    Joe

    Everything is all right!
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    cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AstroJoe said:
    "The market" does decide on the price of a coin. And always does. If a coin has a book value of $100 and it only gets $75;
    That is the Market value for that coin at that particular time. If more than one is offered and $75 is the price most will pay, well then the book value has to adjust to $75. If the seller paid $90 for the coin, and they have a choice to sell it at $75 they would take a loss (but free up capital), or wait until 'the market" deems that the coin is worth buying at $100 (which could be years, and tying up money in inventory). It's part of business.

    If several pieces were routinely selling in that range, I would agree with you; however, a single sale doesn't set an entire market except in very rare cases (e.g. unique coins, etc.).

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    AstroJoeAstroJoe Posts: 304 ✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    If several pieces were routinely selling in that range, I would agree with you; however, a single sale doesn't set an entire market except in very rare cases (e.g. unique coins, etc.).

    Yes, you are correct. The price offered was at a particular time, as a seller you are hoping that market reacts to the book value (or better). Sometimes is doesn't work in the sellers favor. It's a tough business. But decisions need to be made daily.

    Joe

    Everything is all right!
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    ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    Ebay has charged a significant fee for reserve auctions. I suspect that they are waived for the PNG guys.

    That was my first thought.

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    CoinCrazyPACoinCrazyPA Posts: 2,899 ✭✭✭✭

    Cant blame them. I follow a few sellers who went to this and minimum bids in the past year. Last year they were running straight auctions and I got some really great deals from them. Mostly on bulluon related items. Not key date coins. Now they have a minimum opening bid.

    Positive BST transactions: agentjim007, cohodk, CharlieC, Chrischampeon, DRG, 3 x delistamps, djdilliodon, gmherps13, jmski52, Meltdown, Mesquite, 2 x nibanny, themaster, 2 x segoja, Timbuk3, ve3rules, jom, Blackhawk, hchcoin, Relaxn, pitboss, blu62vette, Jfoot13, Jinx86, jfoot13,Ronb

    Successful Trades: Swampboy,
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I always START an auction at a satisfactory ending price. Not exactly a reserve, but the same basic principle. There is too much product out there. Why should I start an MS64 Morgan with greysheet bid of $70 for 99 cents and pray? So you can get lucky at $29?

    An eBay auction is NOT an ANA Heritage auction or a FUN auction where you are guaranteed to have all the players in attendance bidding.

    Buyers AND SELLERS set the market. If I don't want to sell for less than $70, that is part of the price finding exercise. You don't have to pay $70. That is the other part. In the end, either your desire to Buy needs to increase or my desire to Sell.

    StacksBowers almost always uses reserves on their monthly auction. Reserves so high that 25+% of lots sometimes go unsold. But, again, it is NOT an auction tied to a major show where everyone shows up to bid.

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,616 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2017 3:59AM

    It is their business right to list as permitted. They are smart for not starting off at 99c no reserve.

    I don't use reserves but will start an auction at say 90-95 pct bid or around BV. Others start at cost plus use the auto lust to list 2 more times then throw back in store at retail.

    I am in the business make money not give it away. MV is TPG, CW price or can be from a dealer price list. What somebody gave a coin away for in liquidating is not MV.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I won't bid on an auction with a 'secret' reserve. If the reserve amount is mentioned in the description, I may bid. If nothing else then to get the item on my list.......

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    DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,198 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't get all the angst with reserve auctions.

    Seems a fair concept for a true auction.

    90% of most Ebay auctions start with sky high prices which I don't know if the sellers think they're still living in 2006 or if they're on some serious medication, but their coins will never sell.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,481 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't have a problem with consignors posting reserves on their lots. Having been burned a couple times with low auction results. ($150 price realized for a Civil War sutler token that should have brought $300.), I can understand the why a reserve is desirable. The trouble comes in when they keep bidding, which is shilling.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not following coins with reserves can be a waste of time or not. I was following 1 with a reserve last week. Figured the reserve was probably set too high so wasn't on top of it. Forgot about it and it sold for less than 1/2 what I was willing to pay for it! Why the seller wasted the money on a reserve that was 1/2 of greysheet bid is beyond me!

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    mustangmanbobmustangmanbob Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Their company, their business plan, their opportunity for profit or loss.

    Do they have a weapon forcing you to bid on their stuff? Does ebay force you to go on their site, follow their policies?

    If you are so unhappy about ebay ( Reread your 487 postings) then, as you say

    "Man up fellas or go to your safe space. "

    Appears your life would be much happier if you NEVER went on ebay again.

    Or is it jealousy that someone created a 95 billion dollar company out of broken laser pointers.

    Take the Pledge: If I do not like ebay, I will not go on their site for 60 days.

    Disclaimer: I do not own stock in ebay and I am not employed by them. I do however focus on positives not negatives.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I lived in Seattle for twenty years... I went to coin shows there every year. There were a few dealers who would have a table at all the big shows and some of the small ones. Their coins were always the same - very little detectable movement - if any. Their prices were high and no negotiation. I know for a fact (because I always checked certain coins I was interested in) that at coin shows in the year before I left, that they still had those coins... had them for twenty years that I can attest to.... they may still have them. I do not know why a dealer would hold coins like that... perhaps they just liked the social atmosphere of a coin show. I picture some of these ebay sellers as those same people.... between fees and carrying costs they will never recoup investments. Cheers, RickO

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    YQQYQQ Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is really not any of our business what OTHERS do. It obviously is their choice to conduct business the way they want.
    Their money, product and time.
    Same goes for their cost of shipping
    we do not have to bid or buy! B) .

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    It is really not any of our business what OTHERS do. It obviously is their choice to conduct business the way they want.
    Their money, product and time.
    Same goes for their cost of shipping
    we do not have to bid or buy! B) .

    So our comments are unwarranted? Two days ago I got a call from JD Power surveying my most recent bank visit. I have been asked to respond to many Ebay surveys as well over the last decade.

    My issue with the reserves is that it is not noted on the Ebay title line. One has to click the link to see that the auction has n unmet reserve. Pain in the rear when encountered multiple times.

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    Not following coins with reserves can be a waste of time or not. I was following 1 with a reserve last week. Figured the reserve was probably set too high so wasn't on top of it. Forgot about it and it sold for less than 1/2 what I was willing to pay for it! Why the seller wasted the money on a reserve that was 1/2 of greysheet bid is beyond me!

    Indirectly that reasoning reportedly led to the low price on the Dexter 1804.

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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Placing reserves on coins doesn't really reflect the market movements in coin values. Reserves, IMO, only suggests the dealer is trying to recoup his money in a fallen market. Also, money is tight with many collectors. They're more picky and want 100% quality coins and not your "run of the mill" type of coins. Just hold out as their money will eventually start to wane on well. But some are better keepers than most. It's best to keep dibs with those who have those coins you want, keeping them aware of your max price. Otherwise, they will go to someone else once they drop.

    Leo

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    davewesendavewesen Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I suspect most PNG sellers have a business model that does not include selling most coins for a loss.

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