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What's going on with the neck on this Morgan?

topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

???

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    FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,723 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A photo of more of the coin's surface
    would be helpful, but from just the
    one slightly blurry photo, I'd say it's
    a contact mark, and not an error.

    A larger surface photo would be helpful.

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors
    for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    this much more?

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    CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rollo....that atomic microscope is impressive.

    ;)

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It came with an Erector set.

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    WoodenJeffersonWoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭

    A slight 'fold, crease' in Lady Liberty's neck? Some years/dates/mint marks are more pronounced than others.

    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
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    chumleychumley Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭

    adams apple removed

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Appears to be PMD, not a strike through since only the raised portion is affected... Cheers, RickO

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am well aware of the ...slight... crease as most have, but this doesn't look ANYTHING like it to me.

    I had my eyes checked 2 months ago. ;)

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Psoriasis? Dry skin? Guide lines for Marie Antoinette?

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Philistines! :#

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2017 4:01PM

    @WoodenJefferson said:
    A slight 'fold, crease' in Lady Liberty's neck? Some years/dates/mint marks are more pronounced than others.

    @FadeToBlack said:
    You've got planchet striations on the lower cheek/jaw there.

    The fold in the lower part of the neck is a common part of the design. Check coinfacts for more examples than you can shake a stick at.

    Other than that, no idea what you're seeing.

    LOL, I've looked at ( ) Morgan's and I have NEVER seen what is on the OP's coin. That is not a crease by any stretch of the imagination!

    That mark is into a deep part of the die. In the photo, it matches the field color. Need better image with coin rotated into several positions.

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    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    Philistines! :#

    Cheesesteaks !

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I, too, have never seen a Morgan with the neck indented like that, and would like to see more photos. Would also like to see the entire obverse.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,485 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There is a little indent there, which is part of the design on a genuine coin. Perhaps there was some sort of a die chip there, although it looks to be very neat for that type of die defect. Maybe this is a Chinese product since the poster has not shown us the whole piece.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Struck thru rice;)

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said: "There is a little indent there, which is part of the design on a genuine coin. Perhaps there was some sort of a die chip there, although it looks to be very neat for that type of die defect. Maybe this is a Chinese product since the poster has not shown us the whole piece."

    As has already been posted by two members with lots of experience examining dollars (at least one an ex-ANACS authenticator), that "large indent" is not on a normal dollar. While your opinion that the coin is C/F may be correct, the small image does not make me suspicious.

    One thing I've learned in this hobby. The Mint is a factory. Anything was possible and there is always something new around to delight numismatists who take the time to examine their coins closely!

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    Coin FinderCoin Finder Posts: 6,953 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doesn't look like die clash. I think Post mint damage..

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    There is a little indent there, which is part of the design on a genuine coin. Perhaps there was some sort of a die chip there, although it looks to be very neat for that type of die defect. Maybe this is a Chinese product since the poster has not shown us the whole piece.

    A die chip would leave a hole in the die, which would fill up with coin metal during the strike leaving added detail on the coin, not less.

    I have considered the possibility that it is a counterfeit, but cannot say if it is or it is not without seeing more of the coin.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2017 9:38AM

    To whom would one SEND it for a VAM analysis?

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    BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,413 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The field is awful clean where the missing detail is, but am I the only one that noticed what looks like (again, photo) extra metal build up on the inside neck area?

    Me thinks PMD by movement of metal. It happens.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,969 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's going on with the denticles? Could we see more of the coin? Looks counterfeit - from what little we can see

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That would indeed be surprising. It is PCGS....and.... CAC.
    If anyone sends me a way to get VAM verified or newly listed (if appropriate) I will be following up and will tell all of you when I get more info.

    Thanks.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Before you spend any money on the coin, I'll suggest you photograph it in fluorescent light. Lay the coin flat, put a toothpick under one edge (so the coin is tipped) and take three shots of the mark with the date at 6 o'c , 9 o'c, and 12 o'c. Look through the viewfinder to get the best contrast on the spot in each position. This is done by moving the position of the toothpick to a different part of the coin rather than playing with the light.

    I think we can save you some money this way.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    okay

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    One other thing. You have the coin. The field is flat and one level. On a normal coin, where the neck starts, it raises up "off" the level of the field.

    Does the mark on your coin stay the same level of the field? The new images should show us. :)

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If this is a new variety, you have established claim to its discovery.

    Now stop playing games and give the date and mint mark, and show full obverse and reverse.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,438 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    To whom would one SEND it for a VAM analysis?

    Doesn't anyone here have the VAM reference book? There should be something in the book providing contact information so that newly discovered varieties can be added to future editions of this book.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Go to VAM world. I think someone may have taken over Leroy's duties.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks. Bookmarked. :)

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Okay, as promised, here's the followup and "rest of the story."
    The picture I posted was from the website offering the coin.

    At the time, I ordered it on a speculation that there could be something new to be discovered.
    Also I did not have the actual coin in possession when I started the thread, but I did have it paid for and was waiting to see it in hand before posting further photos or observations.

    There was nothing different from any other Morgan dollar. I have no idea how that photo got to look like it did.

    It was MS67 and CAC approved.

    The coin was also more marked with contact marks than I expect from a MS67. Had it been just an order for a MS67 coin, I would have returned it in any case just from its not being what....I.... expect in a 67.

    I returned the coin for a refund and it is now a past episode. I won't identify the date or provide pix as I am sure it will be offered again and I don't want to influence the dealer's business with ID of a returned item.

    That photo sure did "LOOK" like something was amiss on the neck. But.....nope.
    A normal Morgan Dollar. :)

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    gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the return reply.:)

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    MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2017 1:01PM

    If you look at the photograph, it's been taken with the light at a very low angle to the coin. You can clearly see this if you note the shadows along the denticles. And I suspect very strongly it was the odd light angle that made the neck area look odd in the photo but quite different once you had the coin in-hand.

    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.

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