What was numismatics like for you BEFORE the internet?
Shamika
Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
I'll start.
There was nothing coin related in my hometown other than a small section of numismatic books in our local bookstore. But there was a show every April in Knoxville (Tennessee) which was about 20 miles north of my house. Probably had 75 tables and it was circled on my calendar every year.
I had a close friend who collected (as did his father). I would occasionally spend the night at his house (or he at mine) and we would barter with each other.
There was a small coin shop in the neighboring town that had all sorts of low cost circulated pieces. When I was a teenager, I would sometime ride my bike and chat with the owner. I loved trying to find AU pieces in his large binders that were marked XF. I'd usually buy something even if it was only a dollar.
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, there was a coin counter at a department store we would occasionally visit in Knoxville. Again, I could spend all afternoon looking at the over priced, and often overgraded stuff behind the counter. It was great fun.
Comments
The internet got me into coins.
Sort of getting me out as well.
The hobby was certainly much slower back then. At least it was for me.
I was much less selective back then. Early walkers in better grades were tough to find at shows and non existent at b&ms. So minor problems were ok, as who knows when you'd see another 19D in xf, etc.
However the bigger shows were great back then. Lots of nice stuff available that you rarely see now.
I remember watching a guy on tv with a show, mid 90s I think. I want to say it was Southern Coins?
This got me started and I would go to my local coin shop to purchase a few coins every month.
So yeah, buying coins was much harder back then.
EAC 6024
Auction houses? What was that?
There used to be many more small coin club shows in this State. From the first of October to the middle of March, you could find a 20 table to 40 table coin show almost every weekend except around Thanksgiving and Christmas. There were always bigger regional shows too, St. Louis, Chicago and Milwaukee. The small club shows were really important in binding the community of local collectors and dealers together.
The coin newspapers, Coin World and Numismatic News, loomed much larger too. There was a local newsstand that got three copies of Coin World each week (and they always sold out)!
Before 1978, there were only three area B&Ms. One was a junk store, one was a stamp & coin store (stamps first), one was a solid nice coin store but it was a point of honor with the owner that he would insult every single person who entered his store. There were good enough reasons to visit all three, however.
For me, eBay provided a lot of great coins from 2001 to 2006, and it has declined every year since. There is still good stuff there if you look. There are few bargains there now, most good stuff is either fully priced or wildly overpriced.
The internet chat groups have always been a mixed bag. A lot of tyros, with a few psychos, and a handful of people who are the real deal.
I got to go to Joe Escove's shop in SF Tenderloin and step over his bags of Fiji pennies that everyone bought before coin machines had discriminators and gave change.
Got to go to Billy Hall's shop and buy coins that would now be stars at Legend.
Got to go to BIlly's brother's shop and wend my way through the bums and topless drunk wimmen to buy true BARGAINS in the SoMa district.
Got to go to Stan Pierce's shop in Oakland before he dared a robber to shoot him who did and then couldn't go there anymore.
Got to go to Leo Young's shop before his son, Gary took over and pore over Leo's type set that had ONLY key dates in it.
BU Morgans $3.... P/L would set you back $5. But $20s were $48.
Type coins increasing 30-50% per MONTH.
Jack Tar hotel show was bestest. Saw a whole case of the small size, thick turban golds both $2.50 and $5.00 but didn't have the loot to pay 700-1200 per to get one.
So, I did okay.
Lotsa memories.
Ahhhhh..... memories.... Hmmmmmm.....
SF is on my bucket list, really hope to go there in the next eighteen months. Don't exactly know how I have missed it before now. It was probably much better in the 1960s.
Different, but not totally different. I use auctions more than I used to, which might be a bad thing. Dealer's websites and the "shop" function provided by our hosts help me find coins. Email lets me correspond with dealers faster answers easier.
Still, until recently, became the supplies have dried up, I have still bought most coins at the major shows. The Internet has changed things, but not many of the fundamentals. Personal examinations of perspective purchases is still better than Internet photos. Coins shows are still more fun than surfing the Web. And I much prefer reading a physical book to reading one on a computer screen. The Internet has expanded choices, but it has not replaced live contacts for me.
I could go on and on, but I won't besides you folks won't read it anyway. LOL
In all sincerity and I mean this; today there are so many more really nice coins to choose from and pricing back then seemed regional. There is just so much more and the TPGs evolved and are the best starting point for grading, as I would be convinced now, all I ever saw back then was predominantly sliders when it came to Morgan dollars.
I left coin collecting many years before the internet, but it was a random eBay search for coins just out of boredom around Y2K that brought me back.
Then after about 6 years I left again.
Then a few years later I came back again.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
In the beginning (before the internet) the majority of my collection came from pocket change. Lincoln cents, Buffalo nickels, Mercury dimes, SLQ's, and WL half dollars. Then I collected a lot of silver when clad coinage was introduced.
Joe.
The two main changes for me were that obviously there was no e-Bay back then and I used to subscribe to publications like Coin World and Numismatic News. Now I get my coin-related information online. I still go to the same shows
The Internet is a must have for major error coin collectors or any other thinly traded coins I would think.
Wait. People collected coins before eBay?
It blurred the retail/wholesale distinction, provided near instantaneous auction results that were harder for the general public to find, and it made it much harder for vest pocket/small dealers. Now the entire world knows what you paid, so there is somewhat of a defined cap for what you can ask if you want a coin to sell.
Looking at coins by candle light, writing descriptions in coal on the back of a shovel.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
For me the question is, what was numismatics like before the radio. I would write about numismatics before the internet but I've slept, like, 20 times since then.
Kind regards,
George
The rarest of coins traded efficiently well before the net was created.
I collected die cast cars as a kid (mostly Lesney) A few times each Summer my parents would take us into Ontario to search out the many small gift shops dotting the small towns.
We found plenty of old cars and it was a lot more fun than search and click.
Buy high, sell low.
Lots of medium and a few large shows here in the Akron-Cleveland-Canton Ohio area from the early sixties to maybe 2008-09 and lots of shops, too, at least up the 21st century. The Akron monthly show was a big deal. Now it only a tiny remnant of what it was. Those are what I concentrated on back then-cherrypicking for doubled dies and such was easy and frequent. Now there's few shows and only a few good shops. Ebay was great from 1998 'till about 2010 but it's gone downhill since tho I know of a few people who do quite well there. I just don't have the patience to go thru all the junk there anymore.
Littleton CC
Several good bid boards in a Boston, along with multiple dealers on Bromfield Street.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
mostly:
B&M stores
Bid boards
Local & Long Beach coin shows
Coin-A-Rama City in Inglewood every Thurs.
Hanging around the corner liquor store to see if anything good came in (other than drunks).
Several good bid boards in a Boston, along with multiple dealers on Bromfield Street.
JJ Teaparty was one of the few reliable mail order dealers that I found in those early years.
I still have a number of their type coins in my 7070 album from back then.
Really, Really quiet to say the least. I think the digital cameras also played a huge role for the way it is now along with the internet.
@Shamika posted, "What was numismatics like for you BEFORE the internet?"
I used to correspond by mail with another collector of the early United States silver dollars 1794 to 1803. And with other collectors. I joined Numismatic clubs and organizations and read their Journals. And I was on a few dealer's mailing lists, and occasionally ordered a coin or token from a Coin World advertisement. I'd occasionally attend a local show or a larger one if it was "in town."
Photos were not as readily available, nor were scanners (before the internet). One day a Registered Mail package arrived. I signed for it, and opened it up. It contained a couple of rare early silver dollars from a collector friend. I sent it back with a couple of my coins for the collector to view and study. We kept this exchange up for a few years.
Over the years I have collected quite a bit of "old correspondence" between collectors and / or dealers, some dating back to the early 1900s. I learned quite a bit from these old letters and notes. Much today is electronic, for example e-mail notes and texts. I fear that much of this will be lost to future collectors and researchers?
Oh ya - and all the coins we bought through the middle 1980s were "raw!" I still have about 8 early dollars in the bank in 2X2 envelopes and wrapped in jeweler's tissue.
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Less expensive.
What was it like "before" the Internet?
Coin Magazines, Coins Shows, Income Tax Refunds, and collection targets. Specifically, Washingtons, and IKE's.
There was also the US Mint which sold mail order only and limited orders to specific amounts. You had to have a customer number and wait for the mailers to come out.
As jimnight so eloquently stated, it was also "less expensive". A LOT less expensive!
BUT, all that changed with the Net and here we are today, discussing what changed.
The name is LEE!
BID BOARDS !!!!
Yes, I too have wondered how much is being lost due to email instead of putting pen to paper.
One could come up with a long list of pros and cons with the internet, but in general, everything is faster with email, internet point and click auctions, and searching websites. With the internet, you also get the non-stop entertainment of the PCGS forum.
Before the internet, I could find the coins I wanted, it just took longer. I attended local, regional, and occasional national shows, and bought from specialist dealers such as Sheridan Downey and Stu Keen for hard to find items. I much preferred coin collecting without third party grading, for many reasons.
I also enjoyed traveling to various coin shops, there were always some surprises and you could find some very nice and occasionally rare coins. I seldom go to local shops anymore, a couple of local dealers told me anything nice they wholesale out, rather that waiting for the right buyer that will probably never show, as local shops have become more bullion dealers than rare coins.
Used to bug EERC immediately after shows to see what the NEWPS were since they were local at the time. Wanted 1st shot before the "Pink Sheet" was published. Was able to make several nice purchases that way.
Still miss the Pink Sheet - it was a great reference for collectors of FE/IHC cents.
Coin magazine mail orders.....never knowing what the coin would look like or what I'd get, when it would show up.
Local shows and B&Ms.
Never finding what I was looking for.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I was only a novice 1976-82, and an intermediate collector 1995-2005.
Really looking forward to being advanced someday in the late 2020s.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Oh jeez, Littleton coin co when I was 7-10 years old, then a few local coin shops (and 1 overpriced pawn shop) from say 8-13 years old. Took a break until about 21 (internet made it a heckuva lot easier to spend the cash that's for sure!)
Ive only collected during the Internet era and wouldn't own a coin without it. It was my lynchpin.
As a kid I used to get those random mystery stamps through the mail in those waxy envelopes from Littleton. Glad I didn't get sucked into that
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Agree. The Internet has been great for thinly traded material. As an example, before the Internet coins like the Battle Creek Morgans were just stories for many, if that, but we now know what they look like, at least from photos.
Started collecting when I was 12 years old and got a very old quarter in change at a movie theater that something in my head told me to keep. It was a 32 S quarter in the MS 10 - 12 range. Still have it. I was amazed that it was worth $20 at the time. Found most of the less costly Mercs., 1909-1940 Lincolns, Buffs, the occasional worn SLQ, 40s Walker, and odd IHC. Barber Dime or Liberty Nickel. The most expensive coin I found in change was a 24 S Buff in around VF 20.
As a high school kid, there were bid boards, but the best place to get coins in the Los Angeles area were George Bennett auctions at the Masonic Hall in Van Nuys. There was a cornucopia of very expensive coins, doctored coins, nice material, and junk there. You had to know what you were doing. Lighting was bad. Sometimes you got lucky, sometimes, you got screwed.
Bennett was an older English gentleman who spoke as rapidly as a North Carolina tobacco auctioneer. And you had to be very careful; if you looked at him, belched, or farted, it often was taken to be a bid. Sometimes you could find some neat stuff at the end of the auction, when few people were there; he didn't take mail bids.
Most dealers would screw you. They'd call a coin a BU when you bought it, and an Unc. when you wanted to sell it, so except for a guy in a strip mall in Santa Monica Boulevard who didn't mind having kids who were collectors at his store and was helpful, I didn't buy anything from them. The few times I bought from a numismatic ad, the coin always had some undisclosed problems, so that ended in a hurry.
In 1979-80, I picked up 12 of the GSA Unc CC $s. I got the random ones for $45 each, because I didn't want to pay them market for a specific date in Unc., because I didn't trust their grading. They were all common dates; 8 of them were so ugly, that it was painful to look at them, so I sold them to Superior Stamp and Coin at cost. I still have the nicest one; it's an 1884, now in a PC 6 holder with a sticker.
I met Walter Breen just before he was sent to prison for the last time, at a Long Beach Show. I bought his Encyclopedia of US Coins from him, and two of Bill Noyes' books on Large Cents (which was autographed) at that show. Long Beach had a lot more energy back then than it does now. Breen looked to be an aged counter-culture character who took too many drugs back in the day, but if he had the time and you were interested, he was happy to talk about U.S. Coins with you. Any U.S. coins. I had an interesting conversation with him.
I got back into numismatics in a big way when the gold coins from the shipwrecked USS Central America were auctioned literally across the street from my office. Dial up was around then, but I never trusted images, and wouldn't buy anything sight unseen unless I had a no questions asked return privilege. At the time, auction houses were more easy going about coin returns, so I bought a few coins this way. I returned most of them.
I met a mentor while previewing lots at a Superior Coin auction; he introduced me to some of the good people in the industry, and told me whom to avoid. I met a number of the big name cast of characters in the industry at the time, looked at a lot of coins, and learned how to grade them. I always asked someone who knew more than I did about a particular coin before I bought it. Something I do to this day.
In the last 15 years, not much has changed for me. I've never bought anything from an image. If I can't see a coin or ask someone I trust to look at a coin for me, with the exception of two or three dealers who occasionally will send me a coin on approval, because they know what I like, I don't buy it. Period.
Until about three years ago, I could usually find something I liked at a big show or at a major auction house at price I thought to be reasonable. The internet has helped me contact a number of people on this form, a handful of whom I have met personally, and am glad I have had the privilege to do so. It has expanded my circle of contacts, and I find this to be gratifying. I can't say it has made it easier for me to buy or sell coins, however.
To the few people who actually bothered to read all of this, thank you very much!
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
@Elcontador
That was an amazing read. Thank you. Wow what a trip
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
1 - COINage magazine. Redbook price guide.
2 - Mail-order (from the magazine).
3 - AU/BU and Choice AU/BU. Unc and even Choice Unc.
4 - 2 local coin stores here in town.
That's all there was. MUCH better now. Better selection. Better prices. Better dialogue (like forums.collectors.com)!
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Started Collecting in 1965.
Periodic Time outs for the Army, Marriage, Kids, etc.
Internet has ABSOLUTELY changed my whole vision of collecting. I believe it CRUSHED the local "Buy for $10, sell for $80" business model, but not just for coins, for scads of things from dishwasher repair parts, furnace filters, to $200,000 antiques, etc. It also cratered the business model of buying something and letting it sit in inventory for 3 years.
It destroyed regionally induced biases of price and scarcity. The one 1909-S VDB in the local B&M sat for years, over priced and over graded, because the owner "knew" he/she couldn't get another one, so the price was high, and the buyers "knew" that was the only chance they would have to get one. Now, there are 500+ on ebay at any time.
I am also biased as I retired at 53 thanks to the DotCom. Chances are, you may be communicating on the internet on a server that contains chips that I worked on. My area was Ion implantation of lightly doped bird's beak P and N drains, billions of them on a chip smaller than a Washington quarter,
It also "created" my "keep SWMBO off my back" post retirement business selling 65 - 68 Mustang car parts. 35 years ago, set up at the 2 outdoor swap meets per year, run classified ads in the local newspaper and Hemmings Motor New in between, Customers KNEW if they did not buy at the swap meet, it would be 6 months before the next one, and if you needed that door for a 1967 Mustang Fastback, you had to buy it then. Now, just go to ebay and Craiglist.
Sales outside of local were based on expensive long distance phone calls, verbal descriptions, checks, money orders, even cash through the mail, and the HOPE the SOMETHING showed up and it was at least close to the description.
Now, high quality pictures, real time purchase, paypal for security, shipping with tracking, and a truly international market. Today, (Monday) 12 shipments to FedEx and the Post Office, with 3 of them going overseas. There is NO WAY the buyer in Poland, who probably has the only 1966 Mustang in the country, would have ever found me to buy an original optional tachometer 30 years ago, even if the Iron Curtain did not exist.
I started collecting in blue Whitman folders with the help of my Grandparents. I'd go thru their change dish every time I visited, filling holes in my Lincoln & Jefferson folders. Over time, I expanded into clad dimes & quarters, then halves. We'd take trips (walking) downtown to Woolworth's and its coin counter, or Smelter's Row on Arch St, for me to pore thru coffee cans full of "melt" silver. I was young & poor at the time, so all I looked thru were dimes & quarters - - I only knew then what I know now!
Over time, I looked thru change after collecting for my brother's paper route, and my parents gave us each a portion of what they'd saved of silver coins. And I went thru bank rolls as well. And the coin magazines to take advantage of the individual coin ads.
Later, when I worked retail management, I'd search thru bank rolls & the tills and find wheaties & silver & assorted silver certificates, etc.
All small-time stuff, eventually expanding my library of blue Whitman folders. After receiving some coins in change and a trip to Canada, I started collecting those as well. And, based on an Australian large cent I received from a relative, I expanded into those as well.
And, of course, there were local coin shops, flea markets, and a show or two.
But I continued to be just a small-time collector vs into mounds of silver or gold or slabs. Filling holes & trying to get close to filling sets (less the keys) was (and still is) good enough for me.
But then things slowed down as pickings got fewer & fewer and I got busier at work & with family obligations.
I doubt I'd be anywhere near where I am now if not for the juncture of 2 things.... the Internet & one of several strikes at work. As "Management", we had to work long days in a row covering the office while others went out in the field as scabs. Projects were at a standstill, so it was just maintenance & emergency outage coverage. With so much time on my hands, I started exploring the Internet and found, among other sites, this Forum and eBay.
Suddenly, the world was at my fingertips! I met and bought from or traded with tons of people from around the world on-line. I picked up more & more blue Whitman folders from Australia, New Zealand, Great Britain, Canada, & Mexico, and made huge progress filling them. Same (to a lesser extent) with U.S. coins, expanding more into halves & dollars over time. I put together an almost-complete set of Euro coins from the first few years of issue, as well as started a 1-per-country collection which morphed like the Blob over time to a "1-per-phase/locale-per whatever" collection that now spans 8 huge 3" binders full of 2x2's. It was the "second golden age" of collecting for me!
Nowadays, I spend time online here looking to trade for a few coins to keep our U.S. & Canadian folders up-to-date each year, trading with a few others from here & Canada to help them get their U.S. needs filled, and sending off some extras to YN's who I see taking the same route with their parents/grandparents as I did many decades ago. That last effort is very rewarding, and my small effort to "pay it forward".
So it's been a fun ride!
Before the Internet I would sit at my computer clicking the mouse, but nothing ever came up!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Bromfield Street in Boston is where I spent most of my free time before the internet was around. At the time in the mid to late 1980's there were 4 coin shops on Bromfield Street, all within 100 yards of each other. Great times.
Numismatics pre-internet for me was pretty much the way it is now after the internet as I like to see the coins in hand before purchasing them. I also love going to the shows and searching the shows better than clicking search on-line.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
In the beginning….. probably around 1957(?) all my coins came from change collected on my paper route or roll searching.
In the early to mid-60s I bought coins via mail bid, sight unseen, through classified ads in the back pages of Coin World. Lots of auctions listed every week, the ads listed type, date, dealer’s opinion of the grade and that was it. Eventually you would figure out who’s descriptions were accurate and go from there. I seem to remember lots of wins from A.J. Elio? Anyone want to set me straight on that name? Lots of nice uncirculated and proof type coins that I wish I still had today.
In the later 60s through around 1990 or so it was auctions by Stack’s / Coin Galleries, Kagin’s RARCOA, Superior Stamp & Coin (Goldberg’s), Bowers & Ruddy, Bowers & Merena, Harmer Rooke, Joseph Lepczyk, Steve Ivy (pre Heritage), Paramount and etc. I’m sure I’m forgetting a few. Most purchases were via mail bid through printed catalogs, sight unseen, most without pictures and those that were pictured were mostly “actual size” black and white. Occasionally I would attend a Stack’s auction in New York, a Superior sale in Los Angeles while visiting California relatives (actually sat next to Buddy Epson at one of those sales) or a major auction at a ANA show here or there, especially the 1977 show in Atlanta. Also made many purchases at shows and from local dealers in Schenectady, Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo and especially Rochester NY where I bought a good portion of the coins in my set of $5 liberty half-eagles, the better ones from Joe Kuehnert between 1972 and 1975. I remember Joe showing me draped bust $10s for three or four times what I paid for some of the $5s I bought from him but I was only interested in the $5s. In 1975 I moved to Georgia, attended local and regional shows along with an occasional ANA show and had my favorite dealers. Up until this time all of my coins including my “sight unseen” auction purchases were uncertified and as a result when I had all of my US gold and Morgan dollars certified in 2015 and 2016 I ended up with lots of “details” graded coins.
In 1991 I bought my first and only slabbed coin, an 1868-S VG10 $5, in a Heritage Bullet sale, (remember those?), and sort of lost interest in “collecting” until 2011. I would still attend local and regional shows do a little buying and selling but nothing like the “good old days”.
In 2011 the internet was alive and well and I jumped back in with both feet. At this point in my life with more money than brains I added over two dozen coins to my set of half-eagles and in 2016 NGC presented me with an award for “Best Presented Set, Liberty Head Half Eagles 1839 – 1908”. It was at that point that I came to the conclusion that unless I settle for a 54-S and 75-P from China I’d never complete the set. I’m trying to decide if I should sell off part of the set and use the funds to settle for a date set since I’m only lacking four dates.
Thanks for reading my blather if you got this far.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Four shops - JJ Teaparty, Boston Towne Coin, Sam Stone and John Dean. I am surprised that you didn't walk around the corner to Worthy Coin which was on Province Street.
The Internet dramatically increased access, for me. I have not been one who is able to take time to travel to the major shows and local shows were never that great for my collecting needs. Mail bids and fixed price lists were great, but "nice" coins tended to go rather quickly so unless you were blessed with early mail delivery, you were often left out of the "fresh" purchases.
The Internet allows for daily access to sellers and has dramatically improved the ability to purchase coins that were previously offered via fixed price lists or at shows. My "hits" greatly improved from a number of dealers who used to sell only via fixed price lists, but have offerings via their web pages.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Computing was not as fun for me, prior to the internet. And coins weren't either.