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When was the last time the PNG expelled one of its members?
Shamika
Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭
I understand the PNG (Professional Numismatic Guild) can censure, suspension or expel a member who violates the PNG code of ethics , but has it ever actually happened?
And if so, when was the last time?
Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
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Great post. I look forward to seeing the answer.
An intriguing question, Chris. I, too look forward to the answer. I'll bet the instances of it are few and far between.
I suspect never.
bob
I hope that's not true. A code of ethics has no meaning if it has no teethe.
there was that time that guy was accused of being a coin doc, PNG investigated him and found out it wasn't true. They threw him out the next day
If it wasn't true why was he thrown out?
My wife is a nurse in Texas. Every month / qtr ? there is a magazine published with news articles for nurses. In the back are PAGES of names of nurses who are prohibited from practicing. Some are for not paying dues or getting enough continued education but there are a lot for malpractice, felony convictions, people using other people licenses, drug use, etc.
My wife would always consult the list before hiring people.
Years ago I heard rumors a show about a few members who were on thin ice for not paying their dues, but that's all I've ever heard.
A quick Google search yielded the following story from the PNG website:
https://pngdealers.org/png-executive-director-suspends-member-gary-tancer/
I know nothing of this story personally, nor do I know any of the people involved. This is posted merely to help to answer the OP's question.
And yet the dealer in question still advertises himself as a PNG member. Hmmm....
by not doctoring coins he was making the rest of them look bad
In 2010, they expelled a member for not paying an arbitration award.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
updated: https://pngdealers.org/png-accepts-resignation-of-member-gary-tancer/
The resignation was accepted January 3, 2017. And yet the dealer STILL advertises himself as a PNG member.
So once again, hmmm....
Purple Gang rarely expelled a member either.
I'm a newly-elected board member of the PNG and am happy to chime in with answers if I can.
I can state positively that the PNG has expelled members before, but in most cases that action isn't necessary to take in the end, due to one reason or another.
Indeed Gary did resign from the PNG, I suspect he simply hasn't updated his website in quite some time...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
I don't mean to pick on this particular dealer since I'd never heard of him before this thread. But after 8 months, there's no excuse for him not having updated his website. Furthermore, it reflects poorly on the PNG for a member who was suspended and then resigns to continue saying he's a PNG member.
While I don't disagree, I'm sure it's just an oversight.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Was Tom Noe a PNG member dealer? That guy was a real slimeball for what he did.
What did he do?
Double locked and loaded
3% chance of a hug.
Also:
Gary is a sweet and dependable person who is widely regarded as having great integrity.
He also has world-class ADHD.
Why? What did he do?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Okay, now I'm curious. Who was Tom Noe and what did he do?
duplicate post
Empty blather until you can give more specifics
Locked and loaded
edited to include an apology to @bronco2078 for totally missing the point of his post
RE DLRC:
I'm a newly-elected board member of the PNG and am happy to chime in with answers if I can. ... Indeed Gary did resign from the PNG, I suspect he simply hasn't updated his website in quite some time...
Are you serious? You're a Board Member of the supposed prestigious organization, where a suspended member who subsequently resigns, still advertises his membership 9 months after the fact, and you're condoning that behavior as "simply hasn't updated his website". C'Mon Man.
If memory serves, Tom Noe was involved as coin investments for Ohio pension fund or something like that; aka "Coingate". coins in the fund could not be found, there were two sets of books, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coingate_scandal
Oh, you mean Tom Noe was involved in an ongoing criminal enterprise called the Ohio Republican Party?
That kind of slimeballism?
But that would make the coin part of it a good deal less than central to the story.
Warped perspective. Mine, I mean.
The problem is that it would require legal action, potentially expensive, to compel the updating of the website. I agree that they should probably do it to prevent people from just saying they are PNG members, but it's not so easy as you make it sound.
RE:
The problem is that it would require legal action, potentially expensive, to compel the updating of the website.
So what good are they? I am gaining appreciation for Laura's view.
Rick Tomaska used to claim to be a PNG member in his ads when he was not.
I spoke with a local PNG dealer who said that is was among the most prestigious things to be a member, that they do an exhaustive background check and you have to follow very strict rules. Bill at Westwood was a member, not sure when and if he quit. Also the grading services have rules about being a member dealer. Felonies and the like should get you booted. I've reported a couple PNG dealers on unsavory deals, because I like an orderly hobby and society, and the issues were handled in a gentlemanly manner.
Before taking any legal action, how about just sending a simple form letter requesting the dealer please remove any reference to being a PNG member? This would likely solve the majority of such problems. Hiring lawyers should only be a last resort.
I'm going by memory, but when the coins were liquidated, they actually got money then they had thought and the coin fund actually made money. So even though their book keeping was suspect, it turned out coins did actually perform as a good alternative investment.
There is an interesting website called "Boca Busted". It states that it is a "Blotter of Boca resident arrests". The subject of this post had a little incident on June 8, 2015. It does this organization & hobby well (nice pic though).
In the past year, the Professional Numismatists Guild has suspended two members who then subsequently resigned prior to the Board voting on expulsion. Here are the public announcements made by PNG.
https://pngdealers.org/png-accepts-resignation-of-william-dominick/
https://pngdealers.org/png-accepts-resignation-of-member-gary-tancer/
The PNG has a Code of Ethics, and complaints about alleged violations can be sent to Robert Brueggeman, PNG Executive Director, by phone or email at 951-587-8300 or info@pngdealers.org.
PNG Code of Ethics:
https://pngdealers.org/code-of-ethics/
In addition, PNG has a Collector's Bill of Rights regarding numismatic transactions with the public:
https://pngdealers.org/collectors-bill-of-rights/
Finally, I am notifying PNG HQ about the incorrect membership affiliation information contained on the website of a former PNG member. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
-donn-
Donn Pearlman
PNG Affiliate Member AF-498
You are assuming they haven't already done that. Fact is, until such a letter comes from a lawyer, no one takes it seriously.
I didn't realize that Tom Noe was a PNG member. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coingate_scandal
From what I heard he was carrying around bricks of $100 bills doing a lot of deals with cash. Real paper trails are useful for accounting purposes, etc..
For what it's worth, I reported this to the organization yesterday when it came to my attention and it's already been removed. It's a volunteer position and we clearly don't have the time to patrol other websites, but I'm happy to address things when they are brought to my attention.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
John Brush... give me a call when you get a chance (949) 394-7122. Your office is closed now and the phones just go to voice mail for you. Thanks.
Wondercoin.
The subject of this post is PNG expulsion.
I didn't even look up the "little incident".
The tone of the above-noted comment was a little too snide and gratuitous to interest me in the info.
But not, in it's own charmingly subtle passive-aggressive way, snivelingly cowardly enough for me to have a fully-formed opinion of the writer's intentions or intelligence.
But tell us more.
Was there a trial? A conviction?
Under Florida law it is legal to shoot someone if they spit at you from 30 feet away, so this must be serious.
Was it a child-sex ring run out of a pizza-parlor?
Looked it up- Battery - no details other than $0.00 bail. which tends to minimize.....
But........
@AvengingAngel just published the home address of a coin dealer.
Potentially putting not only his life but those of his wife and two babies at risk.
Nothing printable to follow.
T'was but a feeble attempt at humor on bronco's part.
BTW, I am an associate member of the PNG as a result of having worked for Harlan Berk. There are disciplinary actions taken from time to time as warranted. Do they receive a lot of publicity? Generally not, but members are informed. Is action being taken to stop a former member from falsely claiming membership? I assume so.
TD
I was saving that up for a very specific sanctimonious person and you have ruined my fun.
But that's an irony much better shared. Thanks.
My favorite part of the story is that five of the ten members of the appellate bench had to recuse themselves because of Noe's campaign contributions.
Coin list would look like a thesaurus,
So after nearly a thousand views and over 40 posts it's looking like no dealer has ever been expelled.
Could that be true?
NO
The truth has already bitten this question in the ass. Answered in the post about a 2010 expulsion.
You, Seeker of Truth, have chosen to ignore it.
Your lack of intellectual rigor is noted.
Maybe most or all dealers tend to resign before PNG can take action. Both Noe and Haber served jail time for their coin dealings. No idea if they were expelled or resigned.
Yes it was. Thank you for pointing it out. I missed it the first time.
Thank you for insulting my intelligence. I noticed it right away
So how about Brett Bogus? Is/was he a PNG member?
I see that he becomes eligible for parole in a few weeks. https://offender.tdcj.texas.gov/OffenderSearch/offenderDetail.action?sid=07731027
One reason why there are so few expulsions from the PNG is that we are very careful about who we let in in the first place. Applicants names are sent to all members for acceptance or rejection, and they already have a reputation on the show circuit. Strangers with money cannot buy their way in.
A few good dealers do go bad over time, which is why we do have the occasional expulsions. This happens in every profession.
The snarky curmudgeons will now tell us why all coin dealers are evil.
TD