How desirable are the early 1960's San Francisco Assay Office silver bars?

jmski52

I'm talking about the original ones that were sold off around 1961-1963, and not the ones made later (1968-1969) from the US Strategic Reserve and made into bars.

The bars I'm talking about were sold to redeem Silver Certificates when Silver Certificates were still in use. (After they ran out of bars, the Assay Office started redeeming Silver Certificates with 1 oz. bags of silver granules.)

They would seem to be somewhat historical, and I am curious as to the rarity & desirability.

Now that I'm thinking about it, are the ones from the 1968-1969 era desirable as well?

Meltdown

Also. A favorite shop of mine took these in over the counter. They've since been sold but i grabbed some pics of them when he was showing them to me. They were dated 1959.
These are very scarce as I understand it. They fetched quite a premium.

jmski52

Meltdown, thanks - those are the ones I am talking about!

Ricko, I understand completely, lol.

bronco2078

Cool thing to buy at spot but not a premium item

jmski52

Are they still somewhat available?

bronco2078

I've only seen one but then again I don't care about bars , I buy 90% almost exclusively

jmski52

Cool. Thanks, Bronco.

OPA

FYI....

"Those who redeemed just a few notes were presented separate little plastic bags containing $1 in silver granules for each $1 in notes redeemed. Each $1 silver granule packet contained 0.773 troy ounce of pure silver, the amount of silver in a standard U.S. silver dollar."

Small silver bars in various weights and stamped with the seal of the San Francisco Assay Office were paid in exchange for scrap silver for melting.

Read Ron Gillio's write up in Coin World regarding the subject.

http://www.coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/2014/08/Collectors-dealers-who-redeemed-silver-certificates-in-the-1960s-received-silver-bullion-granules.all.html#

jmski52

Thanks, OPA.

I do remember one detail differently than the article. After the Treasury ran out of silver dollars being redeemed for silver certificates, I do believe that there was an interval when the SF Assay Office was redeeming silver certificates with identifiable US Assay Office silver bars, not just the generic bars with grease pencil markings.

My recollection is that after they ran out of the stamped (or poured?) bars, then they switched over to the plastic packets of silver granules.

My only experience in redeeming silver certificates was for (1) silver dollar and then a couple of years later, a bag of granules. (not exactly Mr. Moneybags at the time)

Does anyone else have a recollection or a reference? Maybe I'm imagining it.

Meltdown

I don't have much information to add but have come across a couple items mentioned here over the years.
Here's a neat one I picked up at an antique store a long time ago...

ricko

I never turned in certificates for coin or bar or granules. Was in the Navy at the time and a dollar was at least ten draught beers.... and more overseas....Cheers, RickO

jmski52

Meltdown, those are the ones I'm talking about! Thank-you.

Ricko, I understand completely! lol

jmski52

This crazy website is making me post twice and the posts are showing up in different spots within the same thread!

Crazy weird stuff. Thanks for the replies.

idratherbgardening

jmski52, those bars pictured by Meltdown have a huge premium. Little 5 oz ones usually sell around $3k on eBay these days and the the bigger ones can be in the $5k range (25-50 oz ones).

On the other hand, a plain "grease bar" from the mint with no stamps doesn't have much premium from what I've seen. They are called grease bars because they would write the weight of the bar on it with a grease pencil and that was the only markings.

PerryHall

@idratherbgardening said:
jmski52, those bars pictured by Meltdown have a huge premium. Little 5 oz ones usually sell around $3k on eBay these days and the the bigger ones can be in the $5k range (25-50 oz ones).

On the other hand, a plain "grease bar" from the mint with no stamps doesn't have much premium from what I've seen. They are called grease bars because they would write the weight of the bar on it with a grease pencil and that was the only markings.

From what I've read they are also very heavily counterfeited.

idratherbgardening

@PerryHall said:

From what I've read they are also very heavily counterfeited.

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a fake one? Or someone who had a fake one and posted pictures of it, etc.? There are a few google mentions of maybe there being fakes but nothing really definitive. Ken Conaway's blog has a lot of information about them...that guy must own 50 different ones.

If I was in the market for one, I sure wouldn't buy it at a pawn shop or eBay for $3k+. Some of the big auction houses had have them from time to time and I assume they are authenticated (as best they can).

PerryHall

@idratherbgardening said:

@PerryHall said:

From what I've read they are also very heavily counterfeited.

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a fake one? Or someone who had a fake one and posted pictures of it, etc.? There are a few google mentions of maybe there being fakes but nothing really definitive. Ken Conaway's blog has a lot of information about them...that guy must own 50 different ones.

If I was in the market for one, I sure wouldn't buy it at a pawn shop or eBay for $3k+. Some of the big auction houses had have them from time to time and I assume they are authenticated (as best they can).

Just repeating what I've read a couple of times. Any silver bar that sells for many multiples of melt should be approached with caution.

OPA

@idratherbgardening said:

@PerryHall said:

From what I've read they are also very heavily counterfeited.

Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a fake one? Or someone who had a fake one and posted pictures of it, etc.? There are a few google mentions of maybe there being fakes but nothing really definitive. Ken Conaway's blog has a lot of information about them...that guy must own 50 different ones.

If I was in the market for one, I sure wouldn't buy it at a pawn shop or eBay for $3k+. Some of the big auction houses had have them from time to time and I assume they are authenticated (as best they can).

Suggest you check out this seller on eBay. He's got several, but not for the lowly price of only $3k.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Assay-Office-San-Francisco-102-57-Ounce-999-5-Silver-Bar-DPSB7-/263047311068?hash=item3d3ed76edc:g:FWIAAOSwzhVWrNqV

idratherbgardening

@OPA said:
Suggest you check out this seller on eBay. He's got several, but not for the lowly price of only $3k.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Assay-Office-San-Francisco-102-57-Ounce-999-5-Silver-Bar-DPSB7-/263047311068?hash=item3d3ed76edc:g:FWIAAOSwzhVWrNqV

Thanks. I have seen those listings. Man, drplatinum has crazy high prices on everything he lists!

If you are in the market for one of these bars, here's a little one for you for only $2k with active bidding going on:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-38-OZ-999-SILVER-SAN-FRANCISCO-ASSAY-BAR-SCARCE-/311929381208?hash=item48a070a158:g:iQEAAOSws19ZgOof

If it's like previous ones, it'll go for $3k or so.

OPA

"If it's like previous ones, it'll go for $3k or so."

If so...that equals to about $600 per oz...wow

idratherbgardening

@OPA said:
"If it's like previous ones, it'll go for $3k or so."

If so...that equals to about $600 per oz...wow

Sold for $3550! Ouch, $660 an ounce. Craziness.

OperationButter

Appreciate the thread Jmski and others that have posted. My grandfather used to take my mother up to the mint once a year to exchange his $ into silver. After he passed in 2008, I was allowed to go through his collection and see what was there for the grandkids. He had one of these bars shown in the picture but much larger. I believe his bar was just under 100 oz. 99.2 or something like that. While it will never be sold, I am curious as to what kind of premium this bar would bring as well as how many are estimated still out there that are this size. Anyone have a clue?

idratherbgardening

@OperationButter Is it like this one?:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/ingots/plain-1968-san-francisco-assay-office-silver-ingot-9973-ounces/a/1253-16624.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

That sold for $1880 with buyers premium but has no markings besides the pencil marks. So there is not a ton of premium on it. Then there is one with a hallmark:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-Assay-Office-San-Francisco-102-57-Ounce-999-5-Silver-Bar-DPSB7-/263047311068?hash=item3d3ed76edc:g:FWIAAOSwzhVWrNqV

That has been on eBay for a long time so clearly overpriced.

Do you have any stamps on yours?

No idea how many still exist.

OperationButter

Hey IRBG, Its more like the second link. Its been a while but I don't recall anything written on it, I think the weight is stamped into the bar. But it has the assay seal stamped in along with the fineness (just like the second link).

piecesofme

As PerryHall stated, these are heavily counterfeited. allengelhard.com is the source of that information.