Electrotype counterfeits

Insider2

I collect counterfeits. Most of the electrotype counterfeits I come across are not very deceptive. Usually they have raised blobs of metal in their field or attached to the relief design which is generally not sharp and distinct. Additionally, the edge is either heavily filed to hide the seam where the obverse and reverse sides are joined. When the edge is not filed, there is a definite seam that often is not completely joined where some of the silver-colored, base-metal filling the two parts of the electro shows through.

The image here is the best electrotype I've ever seen. Only a hint of the edge seam is visible. Additionally, the relief design is as sharp and original as a genuine coin!

All these years I have believed that the U.S. Mint could and did produce electrotypes of our coinage. I believe this coin is one of them.

It is not mine so I do not have photos of the entire coin as these images were taken by me at 25X and show what I'm writing about. I was going to post some of the usual electrotypes we encounter from my collection but they are so much cruder than this one that it would be a waste of my time and yours.

Any members have electrotypes they can link to the Mint or of extremely high quality and PL? They must have made at least patterns this way. @RWB, @MrEureka, @CaptHenway, @ColonelJessup, @Analyst, and all others.

AUandAG

neat and interesting, for sure.

bob

CaptHenway

That Indian cent seems to have some good looking wood grain effect on it. I have not seen the coin, but are you positive that it is not a genuine coin with a planchet crack in it?

gonzer

It seems the two halves(?) differ substantially in thickness.

RogerB

Electrotypes of medals in the US Mint collection were made by Joseph Saxton and Franklin Peale in the late 1836 through about 1844. Eventually Peale made copy dies and then duplicates were die struck. Uniface electrotypes were made of Columbian Exposition medals by a contractor for the US Mint from 1895-1898. These were substitutes for the real medals until Scoville could complete and deliver awards. Fraser's 1911-1912 five-cent patterns were two-sided electrotypes that he made so the Treasury Secretary MacVeagh could have a coin-like sample to examine. I'm not aware of the Mints actually making electrotypes of any circulation or pattern pieces, though.

AmazonX

None of my electrotypes have PL surfaces.

MrEureka

I have a similar J-228 back home. Haven't looked at it years, but I'll review it next week. What is the coin in the OP?

BillJones

I have only owned one electrotype and that was of the Libertas Americana medal before I owned the real thing. I bought for $20 and sold it for $50 after a two or three year holding period.

The electrotypes I have ever seen were in an Early American Coppers auction several years ago. One of the Chain Cents was so well done that you would have been hard pressed to have detected it. It even had the vines and bars edge. And yes, it was an electrotype because if you REALLY looked hard enough, you could some inconsistences in the surface.

ricko

I know very little about electrotypes... so I hope this thread grows with more inputs on the subject. Cheers, RickO

Insider2

@MrEureka asked: "I have a similar J-228 back home. Haven't looked at it years, but I'll review it next week. What is the coin in the OP?"

1859 1c J-228

oih82w8

I saw this display at the ANA World's Fair of Money

amwldcoin

The 1st Colonial coin I ever bought(over 20 years ago) was a Mass. Half Cent,a Wonderful AU. I sold it to another dealer. The next month at our local show he brought it back saying we have a problem. Turns out it was a electro and the only way many could tell was there was a small chip out of the 3rd side revealing the base metal. That coin fooled many of us and all everyone could say is they would love to see the Host Coin! I still have that coin! I'd have to dig it out to see...but pretty sure there was no seam visible on the edge.

coinsarefun

@oih82w8 said:
I saw this display at the ANA World's Fair of Money

This is a superb explanation !!!

Insider2

A display to die for!

coinsarefun

btw, most everyone must have seen my collection and if not here it is for the few that haven't seen them.

Regarding the bar cent....I'm pretty sure it is a struck copy as there is no seam.

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oih82w8

I usually give credit where it's due, but I neglected to get the name of the dealer whose display I imaged the "Making An Electrotype" from.

Zoins

I believe one of our forum members has been making electrotypes. Would be cool to get some updates and first hand info

Zoins

@Insider2 said:
A display to die for!

Nice, but there are no dies used in preparing an electrotype