My 1922 B 2 Francs came back MS 66, tied for finest graded (Picture inside).

Watchbelieve

Anyone know how I would go about attempting to appraise something like this?

lordmarcovan

Pretty! Sorta goes without saying, I know.

Sorry, I can't help much with appraisal on this one. Krause is my only reference, and of course would not be much help on a Pop.2 MS66.

coinkat

Congrats... Terrific looking coin. In terms of value and condition rarity, there could be other exceptional raw examples in the hands of European collectors yet to be graded. I would suggest there is no exact value, just a probable range that collectors would be willing to pay.

Boosibri

There are many many well made Swiss coins in the Uber-gem grade range, many not yet graded.

@MrEureka is well versed in Swiss and @coinlieutenant has built a very nice collection. They might chime in.

Stork

Hard to say on something like this--which I would like to say is a beautiful coin!

A quick perusal at Heritage shows an MS-64 selling within the last 4-5 years for $188 (including fees). On the other hand an MS 66 for 1937 sold for $84 in 2016.

The 1937 mintage is 250,000 vs. 400,000 for the 1922. SURVIVING mintage, I have no idea but the NGC census (and no, I'm not looking up the PCGS ones too...) show a total of 5 graded for 1922, with a top of MS-64 vs. 31 for 1937 and top of 67. Price guide in 63 is $165 for the 1937 and $450 for the 1922.

Stork math would roughly guess that a multiplier of 2.7 from the price guide and apply to the 'known' recent sale might give a good price. Stork math means sometimes terribly underbidding and sometimes terribly overbidding so be warned.

BUT a 1909 had an NGC MS66 sell for almost $1300 in 2016 as well. That one has a total of 5 in the NGC census with two at 66...which actually might be the better estimated value AND shows there is a collector interest in these. Like I said, I wasn't going to check the populations on both sites, but interestingly the PCGS populations for the 1909 look like the NGC populations for the 1922 as listed at the bottom of the Heritage auctions. Mintage for 1909 is 300,000 and price guide $1100. More Stork Math would then use a 'multiplier' of 0.4.

And, finally, who is collecting these and do they care if they are raw? Like @coinkat says there could be loads of them trading hands by collectors who think it's silly to slab, or silly to slab coins under a $1000 or something.

In the end, MY ways to set valuation would be:

1. Use Stork Math and the 1937 numbers at 2.7x$84 = $225-ish
2. Use the 1909 sale with comparable pops and Stork Math .4 x 1300 = $530.
3. Take it to Pawn Stars and ask $2000 for it and have them bring in an expert to tell you the real value
4. Put it up for sale on eBay or Heritage or somewhere reasonable and see how much it sells for. Once it sells you have a price guide, because there may be rabid collectors who desperately wants it at the $1300 level, or one who only wants it pre-slabbed specifically in PCGS vs. NGC or that small set of rabid collectors already has this one and won't bid it up.

If I were the 'expert' on Pawn Stars I'd say $500 with caveats that 'anything could happen in an auction'.

If I were insuring it I'd say the $500 as there is a pathway to finding that value a non-collector could (sort of) follow and uses a published price guide. Or, if I paid more, I'd use that value and add slabbing costs with receipts as a paper trail.

If I were buying as a retail customer I'd use #1 to start negotiations. If bidding on it I would then use this number and multiply by 1, 2, 3 or possibly more if I REALLY wanted it and couldn't care less if I was buried in it.

If selling #4 (Heritage possibly as they have sold similar, or a regular .99 start auction on eBay vs. a starting price of $500 just to see what happens, OR a $1200 BIN with MAKE OFFER). Much as #3 sounds fun, that isn't happening.

All this is pure guesswork, but how my mind works in the 'first cup of coffee of the day moment'. My 'wine glass at the end of the day' moment would be different.

Perhaps someone else could weigh in with a 'real life and clear headed' idea.

Now, off to drink the rest of my coffee...and then to the post office to mail off a check for something I just had to utilize similar mental gymnastics like this to figure an offer price (but I had to add in some non-US auctions to...).

Watchbelieve

Thanks for the reply man, that was super helpful!

ajaan

Congrats on the grade, though I'm not crazy about the look. Maybe it's just the image.

coinlieutenant

Cool coin. The standing Helvetia coins for type are easy to find and I would guess there are fewer than 10 folks in the world that are trying for a date run in gem or higher. Maybe 2 of those would care whether it was in PCGS plastic or not. Just a swag, but I am probably not far off.

I paid $150 for my Old fat slab NGC 1921 in MS66. Has similar looks to yours. The 1922 is better than the 1920 or 1921, the question is whether you can find the person who cares. Not sure if your post was for your own edification or if you were looking to sell it, but I would pay $300 sight seen for the coin if it were truly beautiful and properly graded. Truviews are hard to gauge from a luster standpoint.

Swiss is super fun and uber frustrating to collect if you apply rigid standards of appeal and technicals. I have been trying to assemble a superb type set since 2006, actively. Not easy...

Watchbelieve

Not looking to sell at this time

Stork

Well, there you go. Looks like Stork Math version 1 was closer to reality for those who are in the know on the series. If I were insuring I'd still hit the $500 number.

coinlieutenant

@Stork , Your method made me smile. What would your method yield on this one? PCGS 1888 MS66 Five Franc. Pop 1/0

Watchbelieve

35-50,000? Am I correct

Stork

Tricksy CoinLT! Why do you ask such questions when I'm pre-caffeinated. Sadly I don't have a good way to search the European auctions easily (Digression--how do folks search those so quickly?). I would still maintain the caveat re: unsuspected treasures out there in Europe and old timers who scoff at slabbing. Plus you have a tremendously better feel for populations/competing collectors etc. Those I know nothing about. That said, I'll give it a try and you can tell me how close I got

For this one, the Stork Multiplier™ is having a tough time. It's a true Top Pop and there aren't too many 66s (in a super quick search for other years) nearby to use one. The sort of best I could come up with is--at risk of sounding like a real estate appraiser-- is an 1892 that had a 66 sell. The mintages are way off (though surviving is an unknown) 190K vs. 25K, but 1888 is the first year isn't it? People tend to keep those. The relative Krause/NGC guide puts them near a 2.85 factor (5000 vs. 1750 in 63), and the 66 sold at Heritage for roughly $3200 in 2016 (same coin, $3500 in 2014) in PCGS plastic.

Stork Math™ now results in $3200 x 2.85 = $9100ish.
Add in
-the rabid collector 1.3 factor because people do like these,
-the 'omygosh it's gorgeous factor' 1.15, and
-the I AM the rabid collector (that's you CoinLT) 1.1 factor
-the it's a TOP POP (and looks like one) 1.2 factor.

Remove
-the 'I'll pay stupid money for it' at .9, and
-the stronger dollar .9, and
-the 'who knows how many more are out there' .9 factor.

9100 x 1.3 x 1.15 x 1.1 x 1.2 x .9 x.9 x .9 = $13000ish

So, somewhere between $9K-$13K depending on how much you really want it, and how many people out there are competing for it.

coinlieutenant

@Stork , you are pretty good! I paid 10K for the coin. I wanted badly to be able to put together a date run of the crowns. Roughly half of the 20 coins needed (they didn't make them every year) between 1850 and 1916 are key dates and half are "type". The 1888 is a key, despite its first year of issue. I asked this question to show that although I have offered this coin selectively around, I have been unable to find a buyer at 10K, even though the OP speculated 35-50K, which is about half what it would be if it were priced as a equally as difficult Seated Dollar. I feel this coin is an absolute steal for a type collector with high end taste, but alas the market has not caught up to my wisdom! So I will hold it until someone comes along that shares my views or the market changes or both.

In the meantime, I will continue to work on the type set. The coins posted below are my type coins for five francs. Not asking you to do it, but I wonder what your system would say for these. I find them nearly priceless....

PCGS MS66 Pop 1/0

PCGS MS67 Pop 1/0 and Pop 2/0 for the whole type!

amwldcoin

Beautiful!

@coinlieutenant said:
@Stork , you are pretty good! I paid 10K for the coin. I wanted badly to be able to put together a date run of the crowns. Roughly half of the 20 coins needed (they didn't make them every year) between 1850 and 1916 are key dates and half are "type". The 1888 is a key, despite its first year of issue. I asked this question to show that although I have offered this coin selectively around, I have been unable to find a buyer at 10K, even though the OP speculated 35-50K, which is about half what it would be if it were priced as a equally as difficult Seated Dollar. I feel this coin is an absolute steal for a type collector with high end taste, but alas the market has not caught up to my wisdom! So I will hold it until someone comes along that shares my views or the market changes or both.

In the meantime, I will continue to work on the type set. The coins posted below are my type coins for five francs. Not asking you to do it, but I wonder what your system would say for these. I find them nearly priceless....

PCGS MS66 Pop 1/0

PCGS MS67 Pop 1/0 and Pop 2/0 for the whole type!

Stork

The Swiss coins are beautiful in general, and yours are the epitome of gorgeous! I would suspect that makes finding just the right buyer tricky, but once you do, there will be two very happy people . A collection like this is an inspiration.

SYRACUSIAN

A 1922 2 francs in stgl is currently listed for sale at CHF 500 ,at the website of one of the top Swiss coin dealers in the world. All his coins are listed without images, but for those of us who have bought from him, it is pretty clear that the stgl grade falls in between 64-67+ with the vast majority at 65+. I'm guessing that for a colorful PCGS MS66 $600 wouldn't be out of the question. Stork math is very accurate!

coinlieutenant

@SYRACUSIAN , I think it COULD be a $600 coin, but it is really hard to gauge off of Marcel Haberling's site. I never understood why he doesn't use FDC to narrow down the range. Plus, it is full retail. The market is just so soft, hence my original price.

gscoins

There are some absolutely gorgeous Swiss coins in this thread - thanks to their owners for sharing photos!

Watchbelieve

I'm a guy who likes having the best of the best so does anyone have any Swiss coins that are the finest known in PCGS holders for sale for under 1000$ . I'm a taker

Jackthecat1

I am enjoying the Swiss coins posted here. I am a fan of the shooting thalers.

coinkat

I like the math... Reminds me of the Tom Lehrer New Math song from his LP The Year That Was released on Reprise in 1965...the whole record is very funny and even timeless. I still laugh