Buyers premium rising on Stacks Bowers auctions
TopoftheHill
Posts: 200 ✭✭✭
SANTA ANA, CA. (June 30, 2017) — Stack's Bowers Galleries announces that effective after the close of their ANA Auction, their buyer's premium will be standardized to 20% across all auction formats – live, Internet and sealed bid, in the United States and overseas. The change will be effective on August 14th beginning with its Hong Kong Showcase Auction.
Above from a press release on the Stacks Bowers site.
Of course, buyers will figure in the higher cost...it will be interesting to see if this sticks, or drives business to lower cost auctions such as Great Collections.
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Innumerrati - people who can't count and know (rightfully) they're going to get screwed.
Illuminnati- people who realize they can't count and then realize how they actually now can.
Welcome to the Forum
Whose alt are you?
old news
I was thinking this is the colonel talking to himself again and trying to stir the pot.
To be sporting the name chosen for an alt should at least give a clue to the original.
I'd have to really want\need a coin to pay 20% above the already retail prices those auctions bring.
Like I said once before "the hobby" is getting too expensive and don't give me any of those half cocked "hamburger pocketbook" analogies. I note with amusement how many posts on this board are about what's costing what. For what it's worth 17.5 % over retail was too high. No, dealer does any buying above average Heritage auction pricing -20 % which creates quite the spread. I think Great Collections will reap more good coins, the stuff "hobbies" are made of nice coins.
"alt" ???
I'm new here. I have no alternate persona on these boards. I collect British, ancient, and US classic commemoratives. I have registry commemorative sets.
A couple times a month, eBay pays the BUYER 10% back in ebucks.
I do take advantage of that 30% arbitrage over the 20% BP auction houses.
"Please allow me to introduce myself......"
Just messing with a newbie, newbie.
Your first post is an important one, thanks.
Thanks for outing me, @joebb1. Sometimes my subtlety is overdone.
I just bid at their latest collectors choice auction, and it looks like the buyers premium is 25% with a minimum of $25 - but I could be wrong
No, the terms still say 20%, $20 minimum. Appears to be correct when I go to bid.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Reminds me of "rising damp" in Louisiana....
Check again?
I am looking at the current bids and price with bp - not what the terms and conditions say.
Those premiums are absurd. T minues 10...9....8 before a big money elitist brags they dont have to pay full premium anywhere they buy or sell. Surprised it hasnt happened yet. Maybe the low post count failed to draw a crowd.
I just looked at a lot bidding $55...next is $80 with BP. That would be a $5 increment higher plus the $20...
I remember a discussion here when someone here was saying that BPs don't matter, not even if they were 100%, since buyers will factor them into the bids.
Greed.
bob
When I read the title, I was afraid that it was going up to 25%, which means that Heritage would raise their premium too. They have done this in tandem.
BPs don't matter? That's a bunch of bull. High BPs hurt buyers and sellers.
I believe BPs matter since it impacts buyers when they go to sell. But it was an interesting discussion and there are those that say they don't.
As a cash buyer, I can tell you that BPs do matter.If I can buy from an auctioneer who has lower BPs or no BP, I'll do it, and I have always ended up in a better place when I did.
At 20%, If I sell my coin at an auction house, for $6,000 (including the buyer's premium) market value, then that means I have to give $1,000 to the house and only $5000 goes into my pocket. How can that not matter?
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
For a buyer like me, the 20 percent fee reduces my firepower as well as the number of coins I can realistically bid on.
It’s also increased business — at least mine — for Great Collections.
Then tack on a state sales tax of which I was notified by Heritage that they are required to now collect in WI and MN starting October 1. Both combined will substantially lower or end my participation on many lots. I am a collector first, but can't afford a coin 30% in the red from the start.
It can not matter if your commission rate changes along with the BP.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It won’t reduce your firepower if you lower your bids a little bit to offset the higher BP. That’s what all of the smart bidders do, and they’re the ones who buy most of the coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The BP is an illusion, as long as the consignor understands that the commission rate is negotiable.
IIRC, the first BP was added by Stacks to the sale of the Roper Collection, because Roper wanted 90% of hammer for the sale of his second group of colonials. Stacks agreed, then instituted a BP of 10%. Since then BPs have risen, but percentage of hammer paid to (knowledgable) consigners has risen as well.
The price paid for an item will remain approximately the same regardless of BP, since buyers factor BP in to their bids, so it is just a negotiating tactic for auction houses.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
I felt a little badly about throwing two "disagrees" at you until I saw that you laughed at me.
Your second "LOL" shows that you have no consideration for any one else's very real experience. I know that from the size of the checks I wrote.
With a 25% buyers' fee plus my local sales tax add up to just under a 34% premium above my bids. It's not a viable scenario compared to the alternatives.
There is a big difference between collectors and dealers. Most collectors have smaller want list, and when the right coin is offered, you are keenly interested, especially if you have been looking for a while. Dealers also have interests, but if the prices, with the buyers' fee, get beyond their limits, they can walk. They have no emotional interest. I know. I've been on both sides.
I feel the same way when I sit there breaking back my bids with my calculator. Then I bid in an auction with no buyers' fee and ended up with the lot for less than I thought it would be and had the lot shipped to me for no additional shipping charges. That is what market competition is. Huge buyer's fees are for dinosaurs.
Legend will NOT be raising our fee to 20%. We feel bad having 17.5%. But, the sound of someone getting 12.5% for a bigger deal vs the 10 we can give sometimes comes back at us. We're keeping our Monthlys at 10%.
Stacks is part of a pubic company. So they need to be really profitable.
Everyone pays the same
The number next to the box is the price with bp for the NEXT bid, not the current bid.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Why do you feel badly? That's what market competition is all about. You give a better service for less money which keeps the bigger firms from charging even more. It gives your firm a competitive advantage with at least some bidders.
Actually, the competitive advantage goes to the auction firm charging the highest BP
Only if you can pay the consignors more than the competition so that the consignors end up with more money. That means you have to get higher total prices to cover high overhead and better net prices. Smaller, more agile companies can have an advantage. I saw that when I was employed by a corporate giant that is no longer around.
All else being equal, who you gonna choose as a consignor: the firm offering 112% of hammer or the one offering 110%?
And the one offering 112% makes an extra 0.5% in their pocket because their buyers fee is 20%
TDN is right. Most consignors have trouble understanding the BP, so a firm with a higher BP can offer a higher percentage of hammer, and still pay less relative to the actual sale price of the coin. Unless the consignor understands the math, the house with the highest BP wins.
Around ten years ago, I won a major lawsuit where the award ended up being six figures lower than it should have been because the judge didn't understand the BP.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
Thank you Bill Jones......
I don't feel bad. But I am caught in a warp. I will loose biz because I am 2% cheaper. I work hard to put out a great product, but in the end its about how much the consignor can make.
At 20% in the end, vs the average collector the auction does make out quite well
The sales tax I have to now pay is what will really cut my purchases. I have other hobbies that are much more fun.
Become a dealer and get yourself a resale number.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
According to the majority opinion here, high buyers fees are good for auction companies and consignors. The theory is buyers end up in "pretty much" the same place. That not been my experience.
Let's see ... Auction companies collect more; consignors collect more; and buyers pay the same. Makes sense to me.
That is all just artificial naming labels and separation for the same money. Ebay can give a portion of the money a label, let's say "Ebay bucks" and accomplish the same effect. Doesnt even matter who, the buyer or the seller, you give the labeled funds to. In the end the buyer will pay X for th coin, the seller will receive Y and the house will take Z as commision. Unless you are under the fantasy that buyers will pay more for a coin without regard for the added fee. I mean sure in some cases morons will fall for the artificial marketing ploy. Why not just charge 99% hammer fee, offer consigners hammer + 90% and make the morons pay double for coins? Dont pretend there is some underlying economics and business principles at play other than people falling for a scam. Otherwise home shopping club and HSN would be the greatest coin dealers by your logic.
The only real advantage those auction houses have is the illusion of luxury. Buyers and Sellers feel more elitist selling at "auction houses" that handle fancy "collectibles". Its the same reason Nordstrom's can sell the same pants as Sears for 50% more, because everyone wants to say "I shop at Nordstrom's" but no one wants to say "I shop at Sears".
I am an excellent driver, 243 toothpicks.
We're all complaining about 20%, just wait. It won't be long before we're looking at 25% - 33.3%.
Which ever one nets me the most money after all of the "hidden" fees.
Seems Great Collections will be the rising star, at least in the lower to lower middle coin prices. They seem to be getting more and more quality coins.
Oh come on, it's 246.
Now I'm worried about your driving skills too.