Why Grade Copper Coins RD, RB or BN?
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Grading copper coins RD=red, RB= red brown, and BN= brown is the equivalent of grading silver coins WH = white, WG= white grey, and GR = grey.
So is this silver coin white, white grey, or grey?
And is this copper coin red, red brown, or brown?
Or are they both just toned?
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
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They are both tarnished...
and again, we are talking about opinions.... not a standard. Your questions are valid... 100%. And as long as I can remember, there have been debates about the differences. I have no idea why the designations for silver have not been used. I apply my own standard for silver... tarnished = no, not tarnished = maybe, if everything else is ok.
Cheers, RickO
Because yellow , green, and blue indicates problems. LOL
Copper oxidizes into fairly predictable colors. Red (original color), Red and Brown (beginning of oxidation) and brown (fully oxidized). Of course there is also corrosion which can be green, red or black, but that is classified as “environmental damage” and not a good thing.
Silver can take on many colors and shades. For a 19th century coin, gray is the preferred color, especially if the piece is in circulated condition. The gray can range from light to dark gray.
The colorful toning, which is highly desirable for some, can’t be placed into neat little boxes like the copper coins. I think that it is for that reason that there are no standardized color grade descriptions for it.
I think the grading is just a reflection of the price guides. (Or, it could be vice-versa....)
If a category exists in one, it's only natural for it to exist in the other.
People pay more for clearly "red" copper? Then it's natural to grade the "redness" of coins.
Silver has too many variations, and as you point out, some copper strays from the Red/RB/Brown continuum. We are left on our own in those cases....
Why copper coins RD, RB, BN? The EAC, Penny Whimsy and Sheldon were here long before TPGs decided on how to grade coins. If there was an EAF (Early American Franklin) club in 1949 (or 1958) .....maybe today we would have a scale of white/coloration.
Look at Liberty Hall's roof and tell me copper that old is going to still be red. Only if it's a coin.
The 1935 Lincoln in the OP sold for $125. A "red" one goes for about $30.
NGC tried the "W" designation for white silver coins. Nobody cared.
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Silver oxidizes into fairly predictable colors. White (original color). White and Grey (beginning of oxidation and Grey (or call it Black if you want to split hairs) (fully oxidized).
Copper can take on many colors and shades.
What neat little box should the 1935 Lincoln be placed?
I don't know if you were going so far as to say, but there is a misconception out there that copper does not tone in many shades and colors as does silver. It does.
You bring up a very question that has no logical explanation. Any copper coin dated before 1936 +/- that is graded RD has been preserved in a nitrogen holder, or it has been dipped at some point in time. Copper is reactive with airborne elements and coins are not exempt from this chemical reaction. In most respects the TPG's are grading old copper as market acceptable RD without regard to "conservation" means to maintain the original mint RD.
Silver should have a similar grading criteria, Perhaps naturally toned or dipped. Silver is also reactive with the atmosphere elements and will "tarnish" just like your mother's silverware.
OINK
I think that there are unusual instances where a 100 year old + copper coin stays red for whatever reason. I have seen more than a few of them over years, but they are not common by any means. The "look" is that the red is there, but it is mellowed with some tinges of toning. Frequently these pieces are "real" red and brown coins.
If that coin has blazing red color, with no mellowing, it is almost certainly one of the "better coins through chemistry." Such pieces are prone to toning over a period of time. I learned this when I was dealer and gave a couple "red" large cents from 1850s a try. They faded to brown like a blond who gets her hair color out of a bottle.
A hoard of red 1854 Large Cents came through my local shop back in 1988. About 15 pieces total of which more than half were full REDs. The worst coins were 64 RBs and they were more than 50% red. They all had the same look and came from an old time source. No way those were pickled or kept in Nitrogen. While not vibrant 100% blast furnace red, they were well into the 90th percentile. ANACs graded several of them 65 RED. I sent those to NGC and also got 65 RDs. The best ones with the most RED and fewest marks were all taken by a dealer out of the Boston area....I never saw those. I got the "worst" 6 which were 3 65 RDs and 3 64 RB's. I still think of those as a "standard" when looking at similar coins today to see if they've been worked or are un-messed with.
On the subject of maintaining original RED. I can recall an 1891H (?) Canadian Large Cent i had in my collection back in the late 1960's/early 1970's. It was XF/AU. What always amazed me about it that it was full darker brown in the centers and fields. Yet, it showed vibrant red luster all around the devices. I recall it being about 15-20% red overall. Something protected that red....and it sure wasn't me.
There are a lot of certified blue coins so I've been wondering if a BL for blue will be added at some point.
I suppose it's one way to describe a copper coin on a spread sheet, but it seems to me to mostly be an exploited marketing technique.
Am I the only one that thinks that RD and RB large cents are usually awful?
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Maybe it's because before most of us were born, Collectors of copper included a coin's color in its grade.
Maybe silver tends to be more reactive once copper goes brown (I thought copper was more reactive). Anyway, ever see a PCI 100% White slab with a toned coin...LOL.
I can't recall seeing a PCI 100% white coin that WASN'T toned!
I was told that the owner of the company thought it was a great idea as BU "white" was the rage at the time.