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Am I wrong? Perfect reverse coins that just don't matter.
CommemKing
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I feel too much credit/detriment is given to the obverse of coins and not so the reverse. I have countless coins with flawless reverses and banged obverses that grade lower than I would grade. Is there naturally a heavier weight given to the obverse? If so, besides that is the side one mostly visualizes, is there another reason? Tell me how many Morgans have you seen with baggy obverses yet flawless reverses still grading low? Am I the only one who likes a good reverse and feels it should weigh heavier?
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I have found over the years that a coin is graded by the weakest side.
I collect Buffalo Nickels so I'm a huge fan of reverses.
Good evening, all: I don't recall where, but years ago I did read (in the context of Morgan and Peace dollars) that the obverse carries the heavier weight when grading. And personally, I do not buy any series on the basis of the average of the obverse and reverse conditions. I buy on the basis of the lesser of the two, and no dealer from whom I have bought has ever expressed offense.
Others may feel differently ...
Whit
They call it the money side. I have many a Morgan in MS-65 with a 68 reverse. I always say the reverse will never take a coin up but it can take it down.
Yep ... nailed it. The obverse is the "money side" and the reverse is there for the ride. Whether "right" or not, it's the current reality.
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I have been told by one of the best graders on this Forum that "backs don't count for much"
I can't argue with his or her experience,,,,,,,,
Most reverse designs simply protect the coin better....so they are invariably nicer
It's the same for the fairer sex for most
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Is it the same for toning?
http://www.classicpopicons.com/top-10-b-side-hits/
or try
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/b-sides/
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
I agree that the obverse is the 'money side'....for grading and usually, from what I have observed at shows, for selling as well....Personally, I will reject a coin for issues on the reverse just as quickly as on the obverse... I like a lot of reverse's on coins.. the Eagle on the Morgan has always been an important point of evaluation for me, as an example. However, the market is what it is....Cheers, RickO
It has always been my understanding that the obverse carries the grade. The reverse can only hurt, not help. The exception being eye appeal for great color toning, but even this carries less weight than if the color was on the obverse.
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I like a good reverse . Oh, we are talking about coins. Sorry.
This is truly funny!
I think Dick Osburn advocates grading Seated Dollars by the reverse.. Maybe it will catch on.
I have an 1855-s Sealed half dollar that is slabbed AG-3 but has a G-6 reverse, so I am a big fab of giving reverses more weight in the scale.
Wonder if that is more a matter of grading WEAR from the reverse, (for circulated grading...not MS grading)? For Seated Dollars, and in my opinion Bust Halves, it's sometimes hard to differentiate wear from strike based on the obverse. But judging by the eagle feathers on the reverse gives you a much better indication whether it's a VF or an AU......
I was taught it's a 60/40 split, but only in the rarest of circumstances will the reverse improve the grade of the obverse.
The obverse is more important, b/c it is the primary design of a coin and the design that people associate the coin with. Reverses are still important to me and a bad one can be and is detrimental and can and/or should limit the grade.
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Can you explain this? I don't understand.
With a lot of coins, the obverse makes up about 75% of the grade, and the reverse comes along for the ride. The obverse is the side upon which most people concentrate their attention. Therefore a good obverse can cover some sins on the reverse, but NOT the other way around. The reverse only comes into play when it is a lot lower in quality that the obverse. Then it can pull the whole coin down.
I think what he means is that the devices are protected from wear better. I know than that on Barber Dimes the reverse is usually a grade better than the obverse.
How many times have you seen coins reverse up in a case at a show?
Not only wear but bagmarks as well. Obverse tend to have big open fields and devices. Reverses tend to be much more crowded with lettering, etc.
Actually quite a few. Some are slabbed with rev up because of toning.
Not to be flippant, the reverse doesn't matter so much when you're buying the coin... now try to sell that same coin...
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Exactly.....it depends on what side of the table you are on. Sorta like "PQ".
There are exceptions where a strong reverse can bump up the grade. But, that usually means the obverse is already a "liner." Such as an 1881-s 64++/66 Morgan dollar. The superb reverse could end up bumping that coin to MS65. Not usually, but sometimes. Now on an 1893-s Morgan which is a technical 64++/67, I doubt you'd ever get that to go MS65.
I just bought an 1880 Morgan with a solid 66 reverse. The obverse is solid 65 or better on 3 of 4 quadrants. Unfortunately, 1 obv. quadrant is a 64....which makes the overall coin a solid 64...though at first glance it looks as good as most lower end MS65's.
Perfect reverse coins do matter. Because if the obverses of 2 MS64 coins are equal in all respects, I'm gonna buy the coin with the MS67 reverse vs. the one with the MS63/64/65 reverse. Nothing wrong with admiring a perfect side. I'd be a willing buyer for a solid MS64 common date Morgan with a no questions MS68+/MS69 reverse...and pay MS65 money for it. Reverses can matter.
Thanks for the elaboration. I think I understand what you're talking about. I suppose that marks on the fields are much more detracting from the grade than marks on devices. And because reverses are generally more cluttered/detailed, marks aren't so noticeable as when they appear on more open, smoother, larger fields/devices (obverses). Thanks!
I think so, maybe not as much, but yes.
Nobody wants to see a portrait of a lady with a gash in her cheek, and no pristine eagle can make up for it. Doesn't matter if it's a coin, a photo, or real life.
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As I stated previously, I agree that the obverse is the 'money side' of the coin. Reading this thread, it occurred to me, that certainly we, as collectors - and dealers - see this clearly. What my question is, are the graders at the TPG's taught this? Or is it just something that is ingrained subconsciously? Does anyone have the answer? Cheers, RickO
I recently purchased a 1793 Wreath Cent with a perfect F+ reverse, but the left side of the obverse must have been used to test the sharpness of a large pin or small nail, then it appears someone else tried to cover it up with something that turned black over the years. Fortunately the date and Liberty's face is unaffected, and he was willing to accept a lowball price, so I was able to add a Vine&Bars R4 example to my set.