Question about Bashlow CSA restrikes - specifically the hub impressions.
Insider2
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Looking for information on these. Some sold in auction. Question about the sequence involved to make the HUB TRIALS. @CaptHenway
Already have copy of your letter from Bashlow and E-sylum article.
Thanks all!
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Not sure I have anything new. WHat are you looking for, technique?
Too busy to do proper research at the moment. If my memory is correct, Bashlow got hold of the original CSA die for the cent. Cannot remember if it was used to make uncancelled restrikes. Cannot remember if it broke. Anyway, the die was cancelled. Restrikes were struck with the cancelled dies.
Questions: Don't understand why a hub was made. Was it made from the original die? In which case it and everything from it would be an interesting and collectible fantasy reproduction.
I assume that a hub was made from the original die, and one or more copy dies made from the hub, to give him something to use in case the original die failed.
That's what makes sense. Now. Since his "hub" is a repro...did he use it to make the dies that he cancelled? Or did he cancel the original CSA die and make the restrikes from it?
The problem I'm having is this - hub trials exist from cancelled dies. What the heck are they? Why were they made. IMO, some do not match the genuine struck restrikes.
It was always my understanding that Bashlow did not actually do any striking with the cancelled/rusted dies that he obtained (weren’t they already cracked from the 19th century restrikes?) . As I recall the story, he had new dies made and used those, and then donated the original dies to the Smithsonian.
The Bashlow "restrikes" were made from transfer dies that were made from the original dies. The original dies were rusted and had been canceled with chisel marks, which something beyond broken.
I have one of these pieces, but can't post pictures at the moment.
I have several also. So He had transfer dies made from the original die that was cancelled when he got it. That's probably what I should have remember reading. So a "hub" was made by the company that did the transfer and that hub should have had all the hits and file marks that were on the genuine, original die.
it appears that someone made a few (50?) hub trials in different metals. The manufacturer by Bashlow's order? The problem I'm having is that some of these (perfectly genuine looking pieces to the naked eye) "splashers" do not have many of the defects seen on the 100% genuine Bashlow restrikes.
I have seen some of those trials on eBay and I assumed they were real but I never looked that closely. I do know that their recent availability seems inconsistent with what I used to see or not see on the market. Maybe I just wasn’t paying attention, but I am not sure if these were always so readily available. About 15 years ago I used to search pretty regularly for Bashlow Confederate Cents on eBay and I don’t recall ever running into those trials.
I have also seen large copper bars that had the obverse and reverse dies struck into them all on one side. I am pretty sure those are real as some show age, and also they are marked by the minter (I forget the name at the moment).
Back when I was actively looking for Bashlows I picked up several of the bronze and one of the goldine. I usually paid between $10 and $20. I hesitated too many times on the silver and I never got one – I will have to buy one at some point but will pay a lot more than I would have back then. One big score I did manage to get was a tin version – one of several off-metal strikes that Bashlow made in extremely limited quantities (50?). It was still in the original Capital holder and it cost me $36, which even then was a pretty good deal.
I really never knew the real story behind this set and connection to Springfield Ma.
The first and second coin do look different
Sorry I don't have the reverse picture
They are done by August C Frank of Philadelphia and numbered. Numbers 48 and 51 on the bay now. Here's the latter:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1861-Bashlow-Restrike-Confederate-Cent-Copper-Ingot-BU-Red/252790340665
I will try to blow it up to match the one I question. THANKS
All the people "Knocking" Mr. Carr and his products will not be around to see them quadruple in value. I never paid more than $8 for my CSA copper strikes. Dealers couldn't give them away.
Does any TPG certify the hub trials? I've read they cannot be certified because you can make indistinguishable strikes by destroying an original.
Great point.....
I currently have bar No. 48 as mentioned earlier in the thread. It looks similar to the one posted above that's being offered by another dealer.
Another one of these, No. 3 sold a few months ago on Heritage:
Heritage Listing for No. 3
That No. 51 copper bar was also on Heritage earlier this year I believe.
At one of the recent Long Beach shows, a customer of mine informed me that there was another dealer who had a similar copper bar that did not the same AUG. C. FRANK markings on the reverse side so it seems there may be another type of these out there or maybe it was just a knock-off. Not sure as I didn't see it myself. It may be something like this one offered on Heritage last year which says it's a "post-Bashlow creation."
Heritage Listing for Post-Bashlow Bar?
Anyone else have any info on this type that does NOT have the AUG. C. FRANK markings on the reverse side?
These copper bars are pretty neat items and they do a great job of presenting the design of the Confederate Cent... at least as good as you could show it from the transfer dies that were made from the rusted and damaged original.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Nice.!.!
A pair of hub trials are now available on the bay (not mine, no relation). Here are the photos for posterity:
Those last two are very interesting because there are some Elder pieces with Canadian themes known struck on large blank disks with similar cupping. Do you have a link to the sale? Want to see if it lists the diameter.
TD
As to "post-Bashlow creation," I spoke with Robert Bashlow at ANA headquarters in 1979 about his Elder dies just before he left on a trip to Spain, during which he died in a hotel fire. He said that his die collection had been "stolen" (his word) by August C. Frank and Co., and that as soon as he got back from Europe he was going to sue them to get them back. Obviously that never happened.
I was later told by a reliable source that Frank had seized the dies from Bashlow in payment of outstanding debts for coining services that Bashlow had never paid. Perhaps Frank was trying to recover its money by using Bashlow's dies and hubs to strike things that it then sold itself.
TD
I have one of these as well. #34 and one of those NOT marked by the minter.
How many are there in total? please confirm with source evidence if available.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.