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1st post, question about a twenty cent coin

KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

Hi. I collect 20 cent pieces only, I have a few good ones. I was perusing this board and saw the current Legend auction for this: http://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/32715109/20c-1875-s-pcgs-ms65--cac/?ref=catalog

This is a 1875-S BF-1, in nice shape, worthy of healthy bidding, no doubt. But I was comparing it to my best 1875-S BF-1:
http://imgur.com/a/Se2Rp
I see the Legend coin has almost no detail at all on the right wing top and still grades at MS65+. Mine is raw, what grade do you guys think it may merit if I send it in for slabization?

Comments

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2017 6:12PM

    I'm surprised the PCGS MS65+ got a green bean with that reverse strike and heavy striations. Seems like a focal point issue to me. I've had decent looking MS/PF65 seated coins get rejected for CAC and/or crosses on a lot less.

    Your coin has essentially Uncirculated details. But the field luster is mostly gone with unusual friction shown there. I don't think that happened via normal circulation wear. And the odd mottled toning is also a concern. It might not get a grade at PCGS. Since the obverse is even more important....how about posting that? I would say it has the value of an AU coin if the obverse is no worse than the reverse.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    this is the obverse of mine
    http://i.redd.it/6kcpw1azeq7y.jpg

  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,192 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, your coin would likely receive a details grade as I believe there are multiple issues with the surfaces.

    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image
  • KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you. I have always been suspect of the fields on this coin, but I bought it for the strike and the easy BF-1 identification. Would sending it in for conservation services help?

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2017 6:47PM

    I think if you send your coin in to PCGS, it will be put in a genuine holder. The obverse looks AU-58 and the reverse looks MS, but the surfaces don't look natural. I suspect it has been cleaned and retoned. Sorry.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most of the luster has been stripped off. It would only come out worse via conservation. Only thing that would help it is toning down further. It will remain an AUish coin. Time to put on the thinking cap and rethink your collecting habits. If you bought this coin for XF money - then probably ok.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome to the forum! Your coin has a nice look with outstanding detail but I also see the issues others pointed out. Nice photos BTW! Few beginners can take them like that.

    Luster is one thing that can't be replaced. Once it's gone - it's gone. No amount of conservation can put original surfaces back on that coin.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KindaNewish.... Welcome aboard... Your coin has nice detail on the devices, however, as stated, it has field issues, seems to have no luster... Cheers, RickO

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,958 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2017 5:14AM

    I too collect Twenty Cent Pieces and have had an interest in them since I was in high school in the mid 1960s. I managed to put together a "circulation set" of them back then, which included the 1875-P, 1875-CC, 1875-S and the 1876-P. Today I have all of them in Proof and Mint State except for the 1877. I parted with the one I had and now can't replace it.

    I would recommend that you pass on the piece that is in the current auction continue to look for another one. The weakness at the top of the left wing of the eagle is unusual for an 1875-S. Many 1875-CC pieces show weakness there, but the 1875-S is usually well struck. It looks like there were surface problems on the planchet before that coin was struck.

    Here is the 1875-S that is in my set. This piece has been dipped, but it's an example of where the dip worked. I have owned this piece for 22 years, and it has not toned or changed color during that time. This piece is in a PCGS old green label MS-63 holder.


    This 1876 Twenty Cent Piece is graded MS-65. Some collector might prefer it to my 1875-S because it has original surfaces.


    If you would like any advice about "double dimes" feel free to post a message here or send me a PM.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19, 2017 5:06AM

    Oh Yeah! There are those who would prefer BillJones 1876-P double dime because of it's color and rarity over the 1875-S...and you can count me among them!

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
  • abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Slabization is a consideration but your twentier looks burnt.

  • 1630Boston1630Boston Posts: 13,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Welcome the the ultimate coin discussion forum JMO :smile:

    Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb

    Bad transactions with : nobody to date

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,183 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks guys, I welcome your collective advice and opinions. I have much to learn. I am putting together a die variety set of twenty cent coins, using the Double Dimes book by Bruner and Frost as a reference. I have had much fun cherrypicking goodies from this undercollected series, I'm more than half way complete in under a year (and I have yet to buy an attributed coin).

    BTW, I cannot take credit for the photos, those were stolen from the seller.

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @KindaNewish said:
    Thanks guys, I welcome your collective advice and opinions. I have much to learn. I am putting together a die variety set of twenty cent coins, using the Double Dimes book by Bruner and Frost as a reference. I have had much fun cherrypicking goodies from this undercollected series, I'm more than half way complete in under a year (and I have yet to buy an attributed coin).

    BTW, I cannot take credit for the photos, those were stolen from the seller.

    Good for you! Keep searching!

    Neither John nor I have a complete die marriage set (individually). Keep your eyes open ... a new die marriage (1875-P) was discovered a couple of weeks ago! We will update the online reference soon.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I assume this is Lane (sorry for mis-spelling your name above). Thanks for your work with the Double Dime book, it has kept my mind and pocketbook occupied and out of trouble for these past few months, this is truly appreciated.

    I know of the new 75-P, I hear that the fellow who owns the discovery coin is exceptionally handsome, charming, and successful in all his endeavors, and humble to boot!

    One question: both Heritage and Stacks both regularly reference the BF designation on their 20 cent coins. Do you know if PCGS or NGC will start offering BF variety to their labels?

  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, it's Lane (no worries on the misspelling ... happens all the time). I take it you are the collector who discovered the 1875-P BF-3 and showed it to John recently? If so ... good for you! Now I have another die marriage to find!

    Heritage, Stacks, and a number of specialty dealers use BF numbers. I do not know when (or if) the third-party grading services will use the BF designation. Some of the die marriages are rather challenging to attribute.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • KindaNewishKindaNewish Posts: 827 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I come across another, I will trade you for a 75-CC BF-5. That one is giving me fits. I am starting to see mintmark placement in my dreams as I plow through auction records.

    With the reference that you and John provided, a novice like me can attribute them. The professionals should not find this too challenging. My ACD wants them all lined up in matching attributed plastic.

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