2014 Gold Baseball HOF overproduction...
BackroadJunkie
Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've been collating commemorative data, and did run across the BBHoF anomaly. To wit:
| Baseball Hall of Fame Gold Commems (Final Total) | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Type | Number sold | |||
| Proof | 32,427 | |||
| Uncirculated | 17,677 | |||
| Total: | 50,104 | |||
The total number of gold coins actually authorized by congress was 50K. Interestingly, Coin World had an article on it a couple of days ago:
Treasury probe confirms Mint oversold gold Baseball commems
While the Mint claims the error was due to the transition between PBGS/Novitex and PFSWeb (their previous and current fullfillment companies), I don't really care. Some interesting information comes out of the article, though, such as:
However, no provisions exist for civil or criminal penalties for the federal law violation.
So, you can break the law, but since there was no stated penalty, it's okay. But that's not the real interesting part.
It was determined through the investigation that the Mint commonly produces coins above the statutory limit to replace “damaged or unwanted” coins.
The overproduction is executed when “demand indicates a potential sellout,” according to the TOIG investigation report.
So there is a "buffer" to replace damaged coins. This also seems to indicate they do not resell returned/damaged coins, but instead reissues a new coin as a replacement, even with a sold out issue.
In the case of the Baseball coins, the additional 250 coins were produced in August 2014. TOIG investigators learned that the extra quantity of the Baseball gold coins was maintained by Pitney Bowes/Novitex in Plainfield, Ind., as “do not sell” product, but in the transition, the overproduction was somehow recategorized from protected to “available for sale” and was distributed by PSFweb.
and
It is customary during the order reconciliation process that product is made available to customers next in line when orders are canceled because of returns or expired credit cards. This practice usually allows product to be sold and shipped to customers without exceeding the issuing limit established under the enabling legislation.
Their resolution to the problem:
For future coin programs, any additional production above established limits to cover damaged coins and returns will now be maintained at the production facility where the coins are struck. The extra production will not be delivered to the contracted fulfillment center until customer returns actually occur. Such “overage” production is then to be properly marked and segregated at the fulfillment center warehouse.
I do wonder what they do with those excess coins. Melt 'em down?
Full disclosure, I probably got one of the 104 coins. I had only ordered the proof gold, and was going to wait on the uncirculated, but they sold so quickly, that I placed a backorder order for the MS (which they allowed under PBGS/Novitex), and was one of the last to get the coin. Oh, and in came in as an MS-70 later in life, too...
Comments
No repercussions when a federal entity breaks the law.
I'm not feeling surprised.
Somehow, an accidental overage of a single issue of a baseball coin by 0.2% doesn't seem like a grievous crime against humanity. Would putting the mint director in jail or the government levying a fine on Itself help? One bump in PM prices and 104 coins will disappear into the melting pot very quickly.
Interesting, but quite understandable, production/issuance anomaly. Congressional authorization has obviously been treated as a guideline to be modified with actual manufacturing anomalies. Makes sense... Cheers, RickO
Interesting read!
They cancel and melt
What's that bumper sticker say that Forrest Gump came up with again?
Stop with the laws. We got enough laws. It's all covered, need more laws to justify Congress existence. Congress exists to make more, more, more laws.
"We've passed over 500 pieces of legislation this year", every congressperson, everywhere.
Back when I was in undergraduate school I had an economics professor, who had a decidedly libertarian bent, who said, “We should ask our lawmakers, ‘How many laws are you going to repeal?’ not how many more are you going to pass?” Some of the same could be said for regulations written by bureaucrats, which are the same laws.
Still adhering to the legal mintages passed by Congress seems like a reasonable expectation.
I agree. "Let the coin fall where it may", striking to Congress directed mintage.
"Let the coin fall where it may" expresses neither more or less, the flip of a coin, 50%, no advantage to either side.
LIke it or not, the government is made of people, and people make mistakes. Anyone who thinks that we can exist without government in this complex world, however, is not thinking things through very thoroughly. Producing a few extra gold baseball coins, well, there are a lot more important things to worry about. Besides, this is one of the coolest Mint products of recent years. Is it such a bad thing to have a few extras floating around out there? I don't think so.
considering the volume of coins struck by the US mint, totally within an acceptable margin of error.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
I imagine the US Mint has over-struck the mintages for a number of coins and for quite a while. I will share an interesting story that happened to me. The details will no doubt be a little off as this happened years ago.
In the 2008-2009 timeframe there were quite a few US Mint releases that made lots of money out of the gate or shortly after their distribution was halted. These were typically gold issues (fractional Buffs, burnished ASEs, FS coins, etc...) and I would order my limit and then immediately flip them to other dealers. On occasion I would keep one or two for myself or offer them to the buying public, but this was the exception rather than the rule.
Anyway, I ordered a fairly large lot of gold from the US Mint and it arrived damaged. I then contacted the US Mint and initiated a return that was authorized by the US Mint, as well. The coins arrived and were signed for and I had the electronic proof of receipt. However, I received no credit for the returned merchandise. I called the US Mint several times and everyone I spoke to admitted the pieces arrived and were signed for and that I should receive a refund, but no one could quite figure out why the refund was never initiated and no one knew whom to forward me to in order to resolve this apparently simple accounting error. I finally disputed the charges on my credit card and the credit card refunded me the money immediately. I then ordered more from the US Mint just before many of these issues went dark.
Of course, after I disputed the charge, received my refund and ordered coins that immediately thereafter went dark, the US Mint refunded my original, disputed amount again. Therefore, they ended up refunding me twice (once forced by the credit card and then again on their own after everything was resolved). I was sitting on upwards of $50k of US Mint money (I don't recall the actual amount) and no one at the US Mint could tell me what to do with it or how to return it. So, the US Mint cancelled my order for all those terrific gold coins that were now sold out and eventually sent a letter to me telling me they would sue me if I didn't send a check back for the double refund. I had no issue sending the money back, but was mighty bummed that I would not get all these gold coins that were by that time selling for enormous premiums.
I mailed the check off and a few days later received an email that the check arrived and the US Mint asked if I still wanted all those gold coins I had ordered so long ago and that were sold out for months. Of course I said "YES!" and within a few days I had an enormous delivery of long sold out gold that was trading for fantastic premiums. It is likely that they shipped to me pieces that were struck beyond the limit and were waiting to be issued in the event of damage, loss or some other reason (like mine).
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
(snip)
Could those coins have been in reserve? Back in 2008, PBGS's computer systems were already obsolete. Anything more than a moderate sales event would crash their systems. (2011 ASE sets anyone?)
They didn't have the ability to only open sales for a certain number of coins like the current fullfillment company does. PBGS/Novitex could never do a limited sale once the initial sell out occurred, nor a stealth 7:30am sale. That's why they oversold every sold-out item and had a backorder waiting list.
Of course, you could be right. The only reason the BBHoF coins were even questioned, was because the mint now discloses sales figures on a weekly basis. For instance, the BBHoF silver dollars, total to exactly 400,000. Does anyone believe they sold exactly 400K, or were the numbers massaged to make it look that way?
(BTW, what were the coins? The Bald Eagle commem?)
I truly have no idea as to the inner workings of why I received the coins so late after a sellout, but thought it interesting that they shipped them to me so quickly. If I recall correctly, none were the Bald Eagle commem.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Legislative limits have always been read as sales limits for the practical reasons of defective pieces, returns, damage, assay, and loss. There was no violation of law. Had there been, the person(s) responsible would have to face the same penalty as anyone else. These are money and have to be accounted for exactly like any other piece of money.
The Mint does not resell returns. Most are destroyed, and some are used for internal product evaluation, production tests and other purposes, after which they are destroyed.
Net production is commonly expressed in round numbers by removing and destroying the excess pieces. Public production figures are of the final total produced, never of the quantity struck. [This has been normal for 200+ years.]
GO, Mint, GO! Incompetent bureaucracy in action.