1964 Kennedy Halves: Possible Counterfeits ?
cashbailey
Posts: 18 ✭
New member & 1st post here @ the forum.
Background. Was a collector when I was younger, mostly proof sets. Would also go to the bank & 'borrow' rolls of nickels & look through them.
My best 'find' was silver Washington quarters found at a casino I frequented in the early to mid-1990s
At the time, the machines would reject them & they'd drop in a little coin tray. I found 35 or 40 in one visit, all from the machines at the bar. Hope the guy who brought them in, at least got drunk!
The other best find was for my Mom. She was a cashier at a grocery store in the 70's, & one day a guy came in & paid for approximately $30 worth of groceries with walking liberty halves.
Earlier this year, I started buying 'lots' of silver 50 Cent pieces on eBay. Approximately 90.00% of them are 1964 Kennedy's.
I wouldn't have even thought about it, but a friend of mine, who's heavily into Breweriana, and therefore talks to a lot of collectors of all kinds, told me that many antique store owners, coin dealers, etc, have told him that eBay is notorious for counterfeit coins.
I've done the magnet test on all of them, & they all passed.
Yesterday I bought a small scale & weighed my my most recent purchase of 8 1964's
Here's the weights (Kennedy's are supposed to weigh 12.50 grams)
12.54 12.79
12.45 12.49 12.49
12.40 12.44 12.50
And here's the scans:
http://www.hotflick.net/u/v/?q=fRDR2WUas2.dqrSLb5luBzBaBr.jpeg
http://www.hotflick.net/u/v/?q=fRDR2WUas2.BKlfV7MrMlI8MZk.jpeg
Of course my biggest concern is the one on top which weighs 12.79
I can't see anything suspicious looking on the scans, but then again, I'm not an expert.
Would appreciate any/all input.
Thanks
PS: I didn't even realize it until yesterday, but there is one coin dealer in the town I live in. I talked to him this morning & he said he'd be happy to take a look at them.
Comments
I have not heard that 64 Kennedy's are counterfeited, but anything is possible. Color and sound (drop test) should be sufficient for these, I would think. And if you do find a fake one, I'll bet it sells on eBay for at least as much as a real one.
They are fine. The official production tolerance on a 1964 half dollars is just under 0.26 gram, so the one is only slightly over tolerance. They were very busy making these, and one out of telerance slipped through.
Thanks for sharing, welcome to the forums (previous Quake sesher too)
all around collector of many fine things
They look ok
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Welcome
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
beware of counterfeit silver dollars vs kennedy halves
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1964: 12.50 grams (happy medium weight)
Weight Tolerance (+/-) 1964: 0.259 grams
12.759 heavy side
so the 12,79 is an iota over weight. Completely normal.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
From the pics provided they look ok to me
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I wouldn't think '64 Kennedys to be worth counterfeiting but stranger things are out there.
I like the Quake avatar. That was a groundbreaking game as were many of id software's titles, shame that was the end for John Romero at id.
Collector, occasional seller
Welcome aboard.
They look good
Be happy!!! You got some extra silver on the heavy one.
Cheers/Jeff
Listen to Captain Henway.
As someone who has gone to the web sites that sell the counterfeits, they counterfeit everything.
You could ring test them. they should all have that pleasant silver coin ring.
You could google a specific gravity test.
Chances are great that the 64 Kennedy half sold for silver value is real.
Another great line of defense is your own eyes. Know what a genuine one looks like.
From our friends! $4.70 shipped!
The coins we saled are 100% real and UNC
(the blurring is theirs)
Thanks for all the replies.
I researched 4 forums before choosing this one. I defiantly made the right choice!
I've completed the 'ring test' on about 1/2 (all successful) I'll finish that this weekend.
To the person who mentioned my avatar.
I had no idea it was related to Quake. Just found it somewhere & thought it looked really cool.
Thanks again to all of you.
while yes, there are counterfeits on ebay, the odds of there being bogus 1964 JFKs are about 238,855,444,734 to 1. Those who counterfeit coins create ones that will bring them much more money.
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@cashbailey .... Welcome aboard.... they look authentic.... Is the overweight coin one of the dirty one's?
Have fun here... great people and an incredible source of coin knowledge. Cheers, RickO
Send a few into our host grading (but not all) for a preview of genuiness and then go for the grade. Having a coupon might help defer costs outside of shipping.
Thanks
Here's scans of the heavy one (12.79)
http://www.hotflick.net/u/v/?q=BcOa2N1lOI.8HeLUIzjeTFYZYY.jpeg
http://www.hotflick.net/u/v/?q=BcOa2N1lOI.Eek4XgJRI6Y9dDT.jpeg
derryB,
I beg to differ .
the "good" people in the PRoC fake anything that sells. Even 1 cent pieces and nickels.
Anything that makes a huge profit. Next time you are in China, ask for directions to a Coin store.
I guarantee, you will be surprised what you see. And if you do not see what you hope not to see, simply ask for it. It will be delivered to your hotel. Brand new and / or aged, with dings and scratches or without. "silver dollars" sell for $ 2,50 or 10 for 2 bucks.
Take the Canadian 1948 Dollar. prices go from $ 800 and up-up-up.
China price 2,50 as a single.. it is the same with other coins.And, weights are most the time spot on! And some of them are made with the real metal!
Most collectors and dealers alike get fooled because they have no opportunity to compare two coins where they know that one of them is authentic.
enough of that. it make my blood boil because Border services in most countries do nothing and the Laws are very seldom enforced.
lazy game reviews, Quake
@cashbailey ...Thanks, not one of the one's I thought may have accumulated dirt. Cheers, RickO
in 1964-65, silver coins were accounted for by weight per $1,000 unit, not individual weights.
Thanks @rogerb
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Are you saying they weighed 2000 Kennedy halves at a time to check for weight tolerance ?
A bag of 2,000 coins should weigh 2000 * 12.5 g / coin or 25000 grams (55#).
Given the law of large #s and such the tolerances are not additive (it's not 2000 * (+/-) 0.26g. But the bags won't weigh exactly 25,000 grams every time. So they would probably have ignored a 10g or so difference (i.e. less than 1 coin). This would allow an out of tolerance coin to easily slip in.
Or your scale could be off a little bit...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
although I hear even the old scales could do the job down to a gram's difference. At a $1000 per bag, I'll guess they'd be looking for single to multiple coin overages or shortages.
and I'm guessing the random samples planchets from batches to ensure tolerances, too. Gotta get what you pay for when precious metals are involved.
Could this be economically justified?
ONLY if you send a few. That way if they are really beyond fake you're not into it for too much.