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I've got no idea what I just won at Heritage.

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  • BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Dimensions? Metal? What was it advertised as? Interesting.....all I see is a pic. Listing please.


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
    Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BruceS said:
    Dimensions? Metal? What was it advertised as? Interesting.....all I see is a pic. Listing please.

    https://coins.ha.com/itm/lincoln/a-pair-of-undated-uniface-lincoln-counterstamps-a-29mm-copper-disc-and-a-29mm-silver-disc-each-exhibit-a-well-centered-total-2-tokens-/a/1256-8516.s

  • BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2017 7:22PM

    Cool, I couldn't tell if it was an Abe dinner plate, or copper test strike of some sort. It's deffently different.


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
    Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,756 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Beyond very cool!!!!!

    CoinsAreFun Pictorials Album
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  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,674 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Die punch test pieces. Interesting items.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2017 7:22PM

    That is definitely Cool! He looks good with long hair ;)

  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

    Looks like they are uniface die trials of a U.S. Mint medal. I am surprised by the weak cataloging of the lot. At least include the weight of each piece, since that would take less than a minute to measure.

    Also, include the attribution of the medal that the die was testing. That shouldn't be too hard. I am at home and my library is at the office, so I cannot research it, but I will do so tomorrow.

    The worst part of the cataloger's description was this: A 29mm copper disc and a 29mm silver (?) disc

    The material composition could have easily been determined. The use of a question mark is unprofessional in this instance. My hunch is that you ripped a lot worth well over $1,000 for only $258. More detail in the description would have garnered more attention and bids to this lot.

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @numisma said:
    Looks like they are uniface die trials of a U.S. Mint medal. I am surprised by the weak cataloging of the lot. At least include the weight of each piece, since that would take less than a minute to measure.

    Also, include the attribution of the medal that the die was testing. That shouldn't be too hard. I am at home and my library is at the office, so I cannot research it, but I will do so tomorrow.

    The worst part of the cataloger's description was this: A 29mm copper disc and a 29mm silver (?) disc

    The material composition could have easily been determined. The use of a question mark is unprofessional in this instance. My hunch is that you ripped a lot worth well over $1,000 for only $258. More detail in the description would have garnered more attention and bids to this lot.

    The cataloger did that consignor no favor!

    theknowitalltroll;
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @numisma said:
    Looks like they are uniface die trials of a U.S. Mint medal. I am surprised by the weak cataloging of the lot. At least include the weight of each piece, since that would take less than a minute to measure.

    Also, include the attribution of the medal that the die was testing. That shouldn't be too hard. I am at home and my library is at the office, so I cannot research it, but I will do so tomorrow.

    The worst part of the cataloger's description was this: A 29mm copper disc and a 29mm silver (?) disc

    The material composition could have easily been determined. The use of a question mark is unprofessional in this instance. My hunch is that you ripped a lot worth well over $1,000 for only $258. More detail in the description would have garnered more attention and bids to this lot.

    Thank you for your opinion. Any additional research is appreciated.

  • BruceSBruceS Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2017 7:51PM

    I have a feeling that Heritage tried to do due diligence on the piece, and couldn't find in a timely manner a definitive provenance and decided to just let it ride. I know someone here will enlighten us.


    eBay ID-bruceshort978
    Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
  • jonathanbjonathanb Posts: 3,752 ✭✭✭✭✭

    These are traditionally ascribed to Robert Bashlow. See for example legacy.stacks.com/Lot/ItemDetail/191632

  • DCWDCW Posts: 7,609 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BruceS said:
    I have a feeling that Heritage tried to do due diligence on the piece, and couldn't find in a timely manner a definitive provenance and decided to just let it ride.

    But, don't they owe it to the consignor to get it right? If this was my piece and it sold for 25% of what it was worth because of a poorly written auction description, I would be beyond upset.

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  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 11, 2017 9:30PM

    @jonathanb said:
    These are traditionally ascribed to Robert Bashlow. See for example legacy.stacks.com/Lot/ItemDetail/191632

    Here's the description from Stack's. I haven't heard of Bashlow doing any engraving, so is the thought that Bashlow, Frank, or someone else did the Lincoln re-engraving on this? Do we know who did the original Washington engraving?

    Ca. 1961 Die Trial of Hybrid Lincoln-Washington bust from Washington’ Most Worthy Successor Medal. Copper uniface, 24.3mm. King-273 var. Uncirculated.
    New York 2011 Americana Sale - 1/26/2011 - Lot 6369
    Category: Medal & Tokens > United States Medals & Tokens > Lincolniana > Lot 6369
    Bizarre bust r. composed of a Washington bust after Houdon, re-engraved with Lincoln’s hair, beard and facial creases but keeping Washington’s peruke. This fiery red strike is one of Robert Bashlow’s 1960’s concoctions. Struck by August C. Frank & Co., Philadelphia.
    Price Realized: $92.00 Item

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have no idea what it is, but I think it is neat.

  • mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    Just found this listing on Ebay. Hyperbole is rather distracting.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DAZZLING-amp-RARE-ABRAHAM-LINCOLN-MEDAL-TOKEN-SILVER-1865-UBER-TONED-R-9-CWT-/231838049636

    You aren't kidding about the hperbole......just slightly over the top.

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 13, 2017 5:45AM

    Those are unique specimens,and likely an excellent purchase... probably worth a considerable amount more to the right collector. That ebay listing must have been written by a car salesman.... Cheers, RickO

  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,378 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those are great items and I would love to have them in my own collection, but I think some people might be getting a bit carried away as to origin/value. (I have not read any of the links in the thread, so I am just going by what is posted here.)

    They are most likely die trials of some sort, but I see no obvious connection to any US Mint product, and although the portrait is very possibly tied to a 19th century medal or token, portraits of Lincoln were made in the 20th century and even today. For example, several years ago the Shirepost Mint made a set of dies to use to overstamp copper Lincoln cents to turn them into 1/10 ounce bullion rounds, and they used a vintage portrait of Lincoln that they purchased from the defunct Roger Williams Mint. It was an example of an old portrait/hub used to make a new die. A Bashlow link is a good lead, as it seems right up his alley, but I am not aware of an actual token.

    The key would be to find an example of the finished product. Until then, they are just what we see – a blank piece of metal struck with a die that has a portrait of Lincoln. I have to wonder if the auction listing was vague for a reason. For example, the consignor may have known or suspected that they were not as old as some might want to believe. (But, of course, they could also be an unattributed rarity).

    In any case, they are nice.

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for the opinion, JBK.

  • ashelandasheland Posts: 23,714 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very cool pick up!

    My YouTube Channel

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not a US Mint product. JK's description and the prices are reasonable.

  • EXOJUNKIEEXOJUNKIE Posts: 1,624 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was watching that lot for a few weeks but did not bid. If I specialized in Lincolniana I probably would have gone a bit higher than the hammer, but it isn't in my wheelhouse so I passed. I agree with @RogerB that the price is reasonable. You did not overpay IMO but got a fair deal.

    I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!

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  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @EXOJUNKIE said:
    I was watching that lot for a few weeks but did not bid. If I specialized in Lincolniana I probably would have gone a bit higher than the hammer, but it isn't in my wheelhouse so I passed. I agree with @RogerB that the price is reasonable. You did not overpay IMO but got a fair deal.

    It will be interesting to see them in hand.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,180 ✭✭✭✭✭

    now thats pretty darned cool, i like

  • 10000lakes10000lakes Posts: 811 ✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled
    Nice pickup.
    You will have to keep a lookout for the much rarer man bun version of the die, modeled after this photo.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    RE: 10000lakes.
    Sorry, but that photo is of Mary Todd Lincoln after arising in the morning. Now you know the real reason Abe spent so much time at the telegraph office.... :)

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really like your Lincoln thingy you got :)

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    :s Yuck... man bun's...disgraceful.... Cheers, RickO

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2017 8:37AM

    Just posted a photo of what the full medal looks like here. Glad to have finally satisfied my curiosity!

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/992001/washingtons-most-worthy-successor-by-paquet

    Private Mint News | 2010 Lincoln Reverse Finalists
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,560 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lincoln sporting a mullet.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

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  • bestdaybestday Posts: 4,242 ✭✭✭✭

    @DCW said:

    @BruceS said:
    I have a feeling that Heritage tried to do due diligence on the piece, and couldn't find in a timely manner a definitive provenance and decided to just let it ride.

    But, don't they owe it to the consignor to get it right? If this was my piece and it sold for 25% of what it was worth because of a poorly written auction description, I would be beyond upset.

    Heritage must be getting too big .. My favorite Heritage rip was getting $1,000 face US currency for under face value .. more than $400 under then current value

    Beautiful piece .. consignor got badly hosed

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