What would you grade this 1807 Dime? grade in first post
Smittys
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Smittys
Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
Smittys
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Comments
looks around xf 40 to me
That's tough one because the dies were in bad shape, as usual for the 1807 dimes, when this one was made. The entire 1807 dime mintage of 165,000 coins was made from one set of dies, and the mint used them until they were senile. They were clashed many times and were probably polished several times in an attempt to minimize the clash marks.
I think most people would grade this piece EF-40 or 45 given the fact that you see little details like the eagle’s breast feathers on the reverse. My grade would be VF-35 in part because of that hit in the right obverse field in front of Ms. Liberty’s forehead. The overall look could suggest VF-30, but I wouldn’t grade it any lower than that. The weakness in the motto around the edge of the reverse is due to die wear with a tiny assist from brief circulation.
It’s a nice coin and I am assuming that you can’t see any signs of cleaning when you see the piece in person.
The portrait and especially the shield sure show a lot of nice detail.
Beyond that one probably needs to know the series and I do not.
Curious to hear opinions on whether it's wore or just weak as you work your way to the edge.
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VF-20 at the max
I'd go VF35.
I'm in at around VF30. There's too much wear around the rims to all be blamed on die condition & strike. No expert on the nuances of these though.
Total shot in the dark here, but I'd go 35details
On this coin I will accept BillJones analysis.... His expert opinion carries a lot of weight with me... Cheers, RickO
I grade it VF35. Along with BillJones assessment of the dies, much of the peripheral details had been lapped off, and the only way to grade 1807 late die stage dimes is with the central details.
VF less large ding on obverse and possible edge damage at 4:00 reverse. It should sell for less than a problem-free VF of the same date/variety.
I think 35 is fair. I learned ,about 45 years ago , about how weak 1807 dimes were made. I had one that was Unc. and it still was very weakly struck.
RE: "...much of the peripheral details had been lapped off." Quite true. The Mint had three dogs and they did a lot of lapping.
VF+ details, but has that "worked on" look to me, from the pics. Suggest a close examination, esp the rt obv field
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
VF and I'd price it as an XF...
Based mainly on the sharpness of the hair, I see it as an EF-40.
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Having trouble getting past the surfaces... Could just be the quality of the images. Currently based on what I see, not sure this gets a straight grade
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No more than VF-20, if that. The fact that most 1807 dimes were poorly made does not make up for the lack of detail near the rim. The coin has to be seen in person to evaluate if it has been worked on.
VG 08 due to back lettering wear but you do have ear and some hair near ear so maybe and a +
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Reminds me of the thread on the 2004 AG03 Roosie dime. AG/Good rims and VF/XF interior details. On a bad day at the TPG could this get graded Good 04-06? With the old Brown and Dunn grading book, you'd have to call this AG/Good because the rims aren't complete.
I'd agree with the VF30's range as stated earlier.
I'm in the VF30/35 group.
I'll buy all of your VG coins
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I learned the "worn rims - AG coin" lesson back around 1988 when reviewing a nearly complete half dollar collection. I passed on the 1797 in Good ($9K at the time) because it didn't have full rims as most grading guides of that era "required." I was an idiot. The coin had essentially VG center details. That coin was later flipped several times between dealers, ending up in a G06/VG08 holder as I recall. Problem free planchet + original surfaces too.
@treashunt the one that got away. My brother called me yesterday told me he still has the Buffalo nickel he was collecting when he was 11. He is now 45. He said he has 42 and a bag full of dimes. I said I will take them all.
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Cleaned up a bit with more luster then, AU53.
VF Details, but the large depression between Y and star # 8 is a possible DQ for a number grade.
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My gut was F15, but this really isn't my series.
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When I was dealer circa 2000 I had an 1806 quarter that was a "perfect" Fine-12. The coin had no marks or scratches, just even wear. It was the perfect coin for a type collector who was on budget. The tops of the letters on the left side of the reverse had a slight weakness because of the way the coin was struck and the fact that these coins were made with virtually not protective rims like modern coins have.
I had a Bozo swear up and down that it was an AG-3, and I should selling it him for that kind of money. Did I really look that stupid to him? By that time I'd been specializing as a collector in early US. coins for 25 years. Needless to say money talks and BS walks. He walked.
What is the difference between worn dies and worn rims? Aren't you speaking the same thing? Like apples and oranges (both fruit).
popped today
I forgot about this thread and that I responded before (VF30's). Today I was tougher and netted it to VF25 because of the rims. Then I looked at the grade...VF25. I think I was influenced by some other posters earlier.
What is the difference between worn dies and worn rims?
One happens before the coin is struck and the other after.
The former does not affect grade and the later determines it.
The weakness noted on this coin is due to the fact that the coin was weakly struck from the time the two dies came together to make it. Worn rims implies that the weakness is due to post mint usage. I doubt that this coin looked much better the day it was made. It would have had luster, but the details were probably weak around the edge of the design from the beginning.
Me too!
VF-35 is my grade on the coin. Can't tell if cleaned or not. 1807 is made from very worn dies.
Its interesting to view worn dies and the impact on its grade. Take a look at the 1807 dimes in CoinFacts and compare the mint state shown and you will see some of them in mint state with very worn dies and other not worn dies. Check it out and you should find it interesting as to how PCGS grades these coins that are weakly struck. I found a 1807 not weakly struck and its quite attractive.
For as nice as the centers are that 25 grade is a little low to me.
VF 35. "E Pluribus Unum" is weak, at least from the photo.
VF 20+ the grade is appropriate
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I would still have difficulty overlooking that obverse depression below the Y and star # 8.
I guess that is just part of PCGS status quo for early Federal type, as far as the assigned grade.
At the expected market value for this date/grade, our host tends to be conservative on a liability consideration.
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Mixes in nice with heavy clashing
The depression probably would be much less conspicuous without the clash. Good point.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
The depression does not seem to show through on the reverse, which means it probably does not amount to much.
But, yes, it is an issue, but if you get too critical when it comes to selecting early U.S. coins, you are not going to be able to buy very much unless you have a huge bank balance or decide to do do without. "Perfect for the grade" early U.S. coins are very hard to find.