@Coinstartled said:
That is a brilliant strategy when the economy is doing well....
Not sure if this is intended to be snarky or insightful.
Probably nuanced. Economy has not experienced a prolonged downturn in several decades. Not the type experienced in the seventies and early 80's. Sure markets have crashed and folks have been laid off, but the wizards in DC have always pumped out generous amounts of greenbacks to
keep the favored big guys solvent.
Should that come to an end and the bucket load of subsidies and tax breaks handed to Bezos come to a screeching (or even a less sudden halt), the leverage will be a killer. Retaining some earning is always a prudent idea.
Prudent I suppose, got flushed as a business model many years ago.
I suppose it beats AAPL's thing of building huge stockpiles of cash with no idea of what to do with it.
@tommy44 said:
Current AMZN PE Ratio 189.59, I can't see how it can continue to maintain that when compared to MSFT at 31.67 and APPL at 18,24.
I'd take the Platinum, sell it, and buy APPL.
I think AMZN is undervalued if anything even at this lofty PE ratio. They are a category killing machine. APPL and MSFT don't play in the same space as Amzn.
mark
That is certainly the conventional wisdom regarding AMZN. How it pans out over the coming years will be interesting to watch. Their delivery model could morph them into something that makes Walmart look puny or they could become relatively stable if costs continue to harness earning power. Either way it's hard to imagine a decline.
Assuming one is not an eBay store or stock broker you will lose 6% or $60 on the buy of platinum and .5% or $5 on the Amazon buy transaction. Platinum you start off 5.5% in the hole in this exercise for FWIW.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I remember seriously considering Chrysler after it had just been bailed out. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. I did jump on Pixar. I missed Microsoft for lack of funds at the time. Amazon? Nah. Every few years or so, another good idea comes along. The trick is to be able to identify it and have the conviction to move on it.
My next buy will be the 2017-W Proof Plat. I won't buy Amazon simply because I don't like Bezos. Call me small-minded.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Since you and I are the only people buying one, it oughta be quite a rarity in a few years.
Especially when the design is recycled, the authorized mintage is 2X recent sales history, and the coin is 100% certain to elicit about zero interest from flippers. This could be The Big One.
or maybe not.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
As long as "welfare for the rich" continues in the form of corporate tax breaks from local entities companies such as Amazon will do well. If this type of tax break is ever outlawed, which it should be, the game will be over. Does any politician have the guts to step up and start the discussion on this issue let alone vote for it?
@291fifth said:
As long as "welfare for the rich" continues in the form of corporate tax breaks from local entities companies such as Amazon will do well. If this type of tax break is ever outlawed, which it should be, the game will be over. Does any politician have the guts to step up and start the discussion on this issue let alone vote for it?
They will vote on it when the people want it. If only elections were not popularity contests
@291fifth said:
As long as "welfare for the rich" continues in the form of corporate tax breaks from local entities companies such as Amazon will do well. If this type of tax break is ever outlawed, which it should be, the game will be over. Does any politician have the guts to step up and start the discussion on this issue let alone vote for it?
Idiot Governor and City council in my backyard handed 85 million to caterpillar to relocate offices here from Wisconsin. Bigger idiot Scott Walker is handing $3 billion to Foxconn to build a plant in Wisconsin.
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
Silver is 5x higher than 15 years ago. Equity market on average is 3x higher than 15 years ago. Which one is "artificially propped up"?
@jmski52 said:
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
Silver is 5x higher than 15 years ago. Equity market on average is 3x higher than 15 years ago. Which one is "artificially propped up"?
And 37 years ago silver was triple the current price while SP500 was at 1/25th of current price.
@jmski52 said:
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
Silver is 5x higher than 15 years ago. Equity market on average is 3x higher than 15 years ago. Which one is "artificially propped up"?
And 37 years ago silver was triple the current price while SP500 was at 1/25th of current price.
Pick your points.
Thanks for showing which asset class has performed better.
Maybe next time go back 50 years, or 75, or 100. Surely a lifetime of investing experience should tell the truth.
@jmski52 said:
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
Silver is 5x higher than 15 years ago. Equity market on average is 3x higher than 15 years ago. Which one is "artificially propped up"?
And 37 years ago silver was triple the current price while SP500 was at 1/25th of current price.
Pick your points.
Thanks for showing which asset class has performed better.
Maybe next time go back 50 years, or 75, or 100. Surely a lifetime of investing experience should tell the truth.
Such performance can also indicate bubbles. Go see the Tulip movie, Coho!
@jmski52 said:
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
Silver is 5x higher than 15 years ago. Equity market on average is 3x higher than 15 years ago. Which one is "artificially propped up"?
And 37 years ago silver was triple the current price while SP500 was at 1/25th of current price.
Pick your points.
Thanks for showing which asset class has performed better.
Maybe next time go back 50 years, or 75, or 100. Surely a lifetime of investing experience should tell the truth.
Such performance can also indicate bubbles. Go see the Tulip movie, Coho!
Concerning the time frame of reference for determining the return on any investment. Some study should be undertaken to determine the rate of decay for the holding period involved in a given market, and the resulting stats should be used to produce a normalized standard for a stated return in that specific market. If there is a 95% confidence that say, 90% of all investors have closed out their positions within a certain timeframe, then the return can be stated as a % gain or loss based on the norm for that market, and not upon some arbitrary window that suits the objectives of that moment.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Why would you base your returns on the actions of others? Is it fair to say that gold has returned 2.1% annually since 1980 when everyone piled in at $600? Or that gold has returned a negative 8% since 2011 when buying activity was highest?
The best representation is to take the long tern average that wold incorporate multiple economic,,political, and social cycles.
You make my point without even understanding what I just said, lol. Your simplistic answer makes the erroneous assumption that everyone who bought at the peak has held on until this very day, when it's more likely that the paper speculators sold out the day after the peak.
You also ignore any type of averaging-in risk diversification strategy over a medium to long term period of artifcially-depressed/manipulated prices in the precious metals markets.
But we differ in that assessment as well.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Actually it's you who didn't understand what I wrote. I purposely chose losing scenarios for gold to illustrate that both a long and short term hold can be futile. You think gold investors hold forever while equity guys dont. You think equity guys sell at lows and lose money. That's just so wrong.
You think no one has held stocks over the long term.....I would contend that for every 30 year holder of gold there are 100 who have held stocks as long.
I love the "artificially depressed/manipulated" bullcrap. Yeah, poor gold, always beat up. Lmao. Real estate is never depressed, right? Equities are never depressed, right?
Oh so now you'll say that the FED pumps them right back up. Right? Wrong!!! Real estate and equities are productive assets that are always in demand. Gold is just.....blah. If gold just did something like pay a divideo or collect rent, then it would gather much more investor interest.
You know how dumb it is to say, "well, the real return on stocks is only x-6% per year because most folks only hold them for x-20 years." So I countered with an equally dumb response that shows gold is a loser in both long and short time periods.
Gold has proven to be a once a generation investment. Push that return further at your own risk.
_You think gold investors hold forever while equity guys dont. You think equity guys sell at lows and lose money. _
I don't recall ever saying that.
You think gold investors hold forever while equity guys dont.
Nor have I ever said that.
_You think equity guys sell at lows and lose money. _
Nor have I said that.
I would contend that for every 30 year holder of gold there are 100 who have held stocks as long.
THAT is quite possible.
I love the "artificially depressed/manipulated" bullcrap. Yeah, poor gold, always beat up. Lmao. Real estate is never depressed, right? Equities are never depressed, right?
This is fun. It's been well documented that the gold and silver markets are messed with. Real estate, equities - I never said they've never been depressed, so there's no argument there.
Oh so now you'll say that the FED pumps them right back up. Right? Wrong!!! Real estate and equities are productive assets that are always in demand. Gold is just.....blah. If gold just did something like pay a divideo or collect rent, then it would gather much more investor interest.
The Fed isn't much different from the Mint. They both have preferred clientele as their distributors and they have a sure thing going as long as the Fed is allowed to create money out of nothing for their own main benefit.
Nobody is asking gold to pay a dividend. Real estate and equities aren't productive, it's the people putting work and effort into the companies and assets behind the real estate and equities that generate value. The real estate and equities don't do squat by themselves and in effect are no different than gold, except that gold can be hauled around and traded on the spot. Which is part of its value.
Return on investment can be calculated. But to be fair, ROEs have to be compared on an equivalent basis, not some variant that fits the supposition of the hour.
Gold has proven to be a once a generation investment.
Yeah, I used to think of the metals as an investment, but they're really not. If I make a profit at the end of the hold, that's a good thing. If it's a nice profit, so much the better.
In the meantime, my own personal strategy of buying-in over time and selling when I happen to need an influx of cash - has worked just fine, for me. It's money management made simple, and it (i.e., stacking metals steadily, over time) seems to have been a safe haven all along the way.
I work for a living and I generate returns by doing what I do and doing it well. That's my contribution to generating value, and I do it without being burdened by a real estate property or equities that exist on paper. When I want to solidify my earnings and rescue some of my government issued money, it turns into metal. Very simple.
And in my opinion, it's safer than the Fed/bond market/banking system.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Then what was the point of your comment....95% confidence rate of decay nonsense.
That's how I think comparable rates of return would be analyzed using a purely objective method. Nonsense to you, maybe.
Just think.......you would have a lot more crap fiat to buy crap gold if you had just bought a diversified portfolio of equities all these years.
I re-started my stacking strategy in 1998. Fortunately, I sold my diversified portfolio of equities in 2007 and bought more metals. A few years later, I started adding more metal to continue averaging-in while prices have been subdued and paid off the mortgage as well.
I'm quite pleased with my position. Why would I want a bunch of paper claims now? I have the real things. And following the basic tenets of risk management, I've diversified my risk over time, even while concentrating on one market segment. It's quite interesting to watch the day to day fluctuations and still know what exists in my holdings (as opposed to what "exists" on paper or in some electronic ledger over which I would have ZERO control if things go wrong). And make no mistake, things DO go wrong.
_Even derryb turns to the "paper" markets when he wants to make money.
So much hypocrisy in the PM bug realm. I love it!!_
derryb is having fun. There's nothing hypocritical about using technology to facilitate having fun in the markets as long as you aren't going to be damaged by it if things go amiss, and I don't think he's in any danger of being hurt by his trading activities.
When I want to play around in the markets, that's probably what I'll be doing, unless I go to Vegas instead. But, I'm not playing at this time. I'm too busy right now.
cohodk, you're going to have to sell a little harder. It's not working.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@Coinstartled said:
Keep the kibitzing going fellas. Platinum now enjoying a 4% advantage over AMZN.
Not over physical Platinum unfortunately.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
I suppose it beats AAPL's thing of building huge stockpiles of cash with no idea of what to do with it.
That is certainly the conventional wisdom regarding AMZN. How it pans out over the coming years will be interesting to watch. Their delivery model could morph them into something that makes Walmart look puny or they could become relatively stable if costs continue to harness earning power. Either way it's hard to imagine a decline.
One ounce of common sense goes a long way.
rotten timing. sometime in the next 2 weeks -> AMZN
platinum
At $948 a bit of air is seeping out of the Amazon play.
Assuming one is not an eBay store or stock broker you will lose 6% or $60 on the buy of platinum and .5% or $5 on the Amazon buy transaction. Platinum you start off 5.5% in the hole in this exercise for FWIW.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Down $50 in week. I wonder is Bezos is losing sleep?
Doubt it. It's taken bigger hits than that in one day and came roaring back.
AMZN
No contest. Hold shares in Roth IRA.
Yeah, AAPL should have only charged $300 for> @VanHalen said:
Darn stock is back to where it was 3 weeks ago. End of the world.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I remember seriously considering Chrysler after it had just been bailed out. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. I did jump on Pixar. I missed Microsoft for lack of funds at the time. Amazon? Nah. Every few years or so, another good idea comes along. The trick is to be able to identify it and have the conviction to move on it.
My next buy will be the 2017-W Proof Plat. I won't buy Amazon simply because I don't like Bezos. Call me small-minded.
I knew it would happen.
My next buy will be the 2017-W Proof Plat.
Since you and I are the only people buying one, it oughta be quite a rarity in a few years.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Since you and I are the only people buying one, it oughta be quite a rarity in a few years.
Especially when the design is recycled, the authorized mintage is 2X recent sales history, and the coin is 100% certain to elicit about zero interest from flippers. This could be The Big One.
or maybe not.
I knew it would happen.
AMZN was pulling away from Platinum for a while. Spread is narrowing again.
I was thinking about this last Christmas. I opted for 10 ounces of AMZN at $750. :-)
A very generous secret santa gift!!
Platinum
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Where's that Apple or Gold thread? :-)
I merged it with the Aluminum or KIQ thread!
As long as "welfare for the rich" continues in the form of corporate tax breaks from local entities companies such as Amazon will do well. If this type of tax break is ever outlawed, which it should be, the game will be over. Does any politician have the guts to step up and start the discussion on this issue let alone vote for it?
They will vote on it when the people want it. If only elections were not popularity contests
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Idiot Governor and City council in my backyard handed 85 million to caterpillar to relocate offices here from Wisconsin. Bigger idiot Scott Walker is handing $3 billion to Foxconn to build a plant in Wisconsin.
Hey Scott....you can have Caterpillar back!!
The two are at par today.
I'm still all about the precious
Tangible is fun also.
Platinum still
My YouTube Channel
Platinum $981
AMZN $957
Of course you have to factor in the Amazon dividend.
Dividend?.....Heh heh
AMZN $978, but should go lower. Next years' earnings estimate revised down to $7.94 from $11.30.
Platinum.
Well, I've been buying platinum on a semi-regular basis. People need to start recognizing that the time to buy metals is when the price has been down or stagnant for awhile and when the stock & bond markets have been artificially propped up for an extended length of time.
I knew it would happen.
Silver is 5x higher than 15 years ago. Equity market on average is 3x higher than 15 years ago. Which one is "artificially propped up"?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
And 37 years ago silver was triple the current price while SP500 was at 1/25th of current price.
Pick your points.
Thanks for showing which asset class has performed better.
Maybe next time go back 50 years, or 75, or 100. Surely a lifetime of investing experience should tell the truth.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Such performance can also indicate bubbles. Go see the Tulip movie, Coho!
Don't you know I prefer roses? LMAO!!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I note no time frame was given!
.
ok. EOY or 12 months?
Concerning the time frame of reference for determining the return on any investment. Some study should be undertaken to determine the rate of decay for the holding period involved in a given market, and the resulting stats should be used to produce a normalized standard for a stated return in that specific market. If there is a 95% confidence that say, 90% of all investors have closed out their positions within a certain timeframe, then the return can be stated as a % gain or loss based on the norm for that market, and not upon some arbitrary window that suits the objectives of that moment.
I knew it would happen.
The main problem is in getting transparency in most any financial market, and good luck with that.
I knew it would happen.
Why would you base your returns on the actions of others? Is it fair to say that gold has returned 2.1% annually since 1980 when everyone piled in at $600? Or that gold has returned a negative 8% since 2011 when buying activity was highest?
The best representation is to take the long tern average that wold incorporate multiple economic,,political, and social cycles.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You make my point without even understanding what I just said, lol. Your simplistic answer makes the erroneous assumption that everyone who bought at the peak has held on until this very day, when it's more likely that the paper speculators sold out the day after the peak.
You also ignore any type of averaging-in risk diversification strategy over a medium to long term period of artifcially-depressed/manipulated prices in the precious metals markets.
But we differ in that assessment as well.
I knew it would happen.
Actually it's you who didn't understand what I wrote. I purposely chose losing scenarios for gold to illustrate that both a long and short term hold can be futile. You think gold investors hold forever while equity guys dont. You think equity guys sell at lows and lose money. That's just so wrong.
You think no one has held stocks over the long term.....I would contend that for every 30 year holder of gold there are 100 who have held stocks as long.
I love the "artificially depressed/manipulated" bullcrap. Yeah, poor gold, always beat up. Lmao. Real estate is never depressed, right? Equities are never depressed, right?
Oh so now you'll say that the FED pumps them right back up. Right? Wrong!!! Real estate and equities are productive assets that are always in demand. Gold is just.....blah. If gold just did something like pay a divideo or collect rent, then it would gather much more investor interest.
You know how dumb it is to say, "well, the real return on stocks is only x-6% per year because most folks only hold them for x-20 years." So I countered with an equally dumb response that shows gold is a loser in both long and short time periods.
Gold has proven to be a once a generation investment. Push that return further at your own risk.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
_You think gold investors hold forever while equity guys dont. You think equity guys sell at lows and lose money. _
I don't recall ever saying that.
You think gold investors hold forever while equity guys dont.
Nor have I ever said that.
_You think equity guys sell at lows and lose money. _
Nor have I said that.
I would contend that for every 30 year holder of gold there are 100 who have held stocks as long.
THAT is quite possible.
I love the "artificially depressed/manipulated" bullcrap. Yeah, poor gold, always beat up. Lmao. Real estate is never depressed, right? Equities are never depressed, right?
This is fun. It's been well documented that the gold and silver markets are messed with. Real estate, equities - I never said they've never been depressed, so there's no argument there.
Oh so now you'll say that the FED pumps them right back up. Right? Wrong!!! Real estate and equities are productive assets that are always in demand. Gold is just.....blah. If gold just did something like pay a divideo or collect rent, then it would gather much more investor interest.
The Fed isn't much different from the Mint. They both have preferred clientele as their distributors and they have a sure thing going as long as the Fed is allowed to create money out of nothing for their own main benefit.
Nobody is asking gold to pay a dividend. Real estate and equities aren't productive, it's the people putting work and effort into the companies and assets behind the real estate and equities that generate value. The real estate and equities don't do squat by themselves and in effect are no different than gold, except that gold can be hauled around and traded on the spot. Which is part of its value.
Return on investment can be calculated. But to be fair, ROEs have to be compared on an equivalent basis, not some variant that fits the supposition of the hour.
Gold has proven to be a once a generation investment.
Yeah, I used to think of the metals as an investment, but they're really not. If I make a profit at the end of the hold, that's a good thing. If it's a nice profit, so much the better.
In the meantime, my own personal strategy of buying-in over time and selling when I happen to need an influx of cash - has worked just fine, for me. It's money management made simple, and it (i.e., stacking metals steadily, over time) seems to have been a safe haven all along the way.
I work for a living and I generate returns by doing what I do and doing it well. That's my contribution to generating value, and I do it without being burdened by a real estate property or equities that exist on paper. When I want to solidify my earnings and rescue some of my government issued money, it turns into metal. Very simple.
And in my opinion, it's safer than the Fed/bond market/banking system.
I knew it would happen.
Then what was the point of your comment....95% confidence rate of decay nonsense.
Just think.......you would have a lot more crap fiat to buy crap gold if you had just bought a diversified portfolio of equities all these years.
Even derryb turns to the "paper" markets when he wants to make money.
So much hypocrisy in the PM bug realm. I love it!!
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Then what was the point of your comment....95% confidence rate of decay nonsense.
That's how I think comparable rates of return would be analyzed using a purely objective method. Nonsense to you, maybe.
Just think.......you would have a lot more crap fiat to buy crap gold if you had just bought a diversified portfolio of equities all these years.
I re-started my stacking strategy in 1998. Fortunately, I sold my diversified portfolio of equities in 2007 and bought more metals. A few years later, I started adding more metal to continue averaging-in while prices have been subdued and paid off the mortgage as well.
I'm quite pleased with my position. Why would I want a bunch of paper claims now? I have the real things. And following the basic tenets of risk management, I've diversified my risk over time, even while concentrating on one market segment. It's quite interesting to watch the day to day fluctuations and still know what exists in my holdings (as opposed to what "exists" on paper or in some electronic ledger over which I would have ZERO control if things go wrong). And make no mistake, things DO go wrong.
_Even derryb turns to the "paper" markets when he wants to make money.
So much hypocrisy in the PM bug realm. I love it!!_
derryb is having fun. There's nothing hypocritical about using technology to facilitate having fun in the markets as long as you aren't going to be damaged by it if things go amiss, and I don't think he's in any danger of being hurt by his trading activities.
When I want to play around in the markets, that's probably what I'll be doing, unless I go to Vegas instead. But, I'm not playing at this time. I'm too busy right now.
cohodk, you're going to have to sell a little harder. It's not working.
I knew it would happen.
Keep the kibitzing going fellas. Platinum now enjoying a 4% advantage over AMZN.
Jmski, the truth never has to be sold. Keep trying.
Someone who looks at the night sky and sees black will never see the blue sky during the day.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Not over physical Platinum unfortunately.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Amazon crushes. Up $80.00 after the bell. $1050.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Platinum as if you look at the times earning on the stock SMH. Corrections to follow
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Any one who bet against Amazon in the past, is crying the blues.